What's going on with the 997.2 RS market?
11-22-2012, 01:47 PM
#46
I agree. We have seen it over an over. A 991 S does the ring as fast as a GT3. How fast will the 991 GT3RS be?
11-22-2012, 03:05 PM
#48
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This is not confirmed and I would bet manual will still be available on the 991's. Manuals are on the way out, but not this round. Expect both tranny's to be available. I drove a C2S 992 and it wasn't bad. Nice exhaust note, etc. Wasn't as raw as the 997's. I believe the 991 GT3 will be a blast. For now, I don't know what to buy!
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11-22-2012, 03:22 PM
#49
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Back when the 997.1 gt3 rs came out there was a lot of talk how the premium was worth it, the values would hold, collectors car , etc. everything changed when the .2 rolled in.
This will continue -- the supply is not small enough for continual price increase, and technology is evolving extremely quickly.
This will continue -- the supply is not small enough for continual price increase, and technology is evolving extremely quickly.
The times of big changes are over..
PS: to prove my theory, look at this here - as one user before was saying that a 991S can do the Ring in the same time as a 997GT3 3.8..its Porsches wishful thinking - but independent motoring comes to a different result.
http://www.sportauto.de/rundenzeiten...itNS&order=ASC
11-22-2012, 03:57 PM
#50
Drifting
I don't have an interest in a 991 GT3 (RS) that (1) doesn't have 3 pedals (2) doesn't share significant technology with a reliable endurance racing winner (3) doesn't provide an excellent road driving experience that is engaging and involving. The 3 pedal/tech things may appear contradictory, but I don't necessarily think so.
It's possible that they will deliver that, but I'm not optimistic. Just have to wait and see.
Completely agree, I with my 997 GT2 and GT3 - will not buy a 991 GT3 either..why?
1) 997 is the last Mezger, last manual, last realiable GT3 (?) If the 991 GT3RS will be there in 2 years..why does Porsche wait so long? It maybe tells yo how confident they are about the new one, as the 9A1 engine is not made for slicks..they need first to wait from feedback from "practical 991 GT3 racing"
2) The new one will have no proven track history (az least the basic 991 Gt3), from what I heard from people working at Porsche here in Germany, the new 991 GT3 will not able to match the 997 GT3 in terms of reliability. Besides, many people first want to see the thing "deserving its reputation"..before ordering. As the 991 will also be considerably more expensive..997 GT3s will always be at even around 100K (for a normal 3.8 997) a bargain. The new one will be 50K more..will it be so much faster?
I would even go that far saying that in 5 years, normal 991 GT3s (used ones) will be worth less than second hand 997 GT3RS. Here in Germany 991 loose 30K € after 5000Km (!) (look at 993 turbo vs 996 turbo)
PS: I admire you guys in the US, you realized that 997 GT3 (RS) are something special..and therefore prices went up agian
. In Germany the market is currently flooded with 991s...much more supply than demand. The GT3 997 is however not sufferiung so much from it as the quantities are limited. However, demand is also not so high either..here we cannot speak about a price hike - in the US you can see it.
We will see what happens...
1) 997 is the last Mezger, last manual, last realiable GT3 (?) If the 991 GT3RS will be there in 2 years..why does Porsche wait so long? It maybe tells yo how confident they are about the new one, as the 9A1 engine is not made for slicks..they need first to wait from feedback from "practical 991 GT3 racing"
2) The new one will have no proven track history (az least the basic 991 Gt3), from what I heard from people working at Porsche here in Germany, the new 991 GT3 will not able to match the 997 GT3 in terms of reliability. Besides, many people first want to see the thing "deserving its reputation"..before ordering. As the 991 will also be considerably more expensive..997 GT3s will always be at even around 100K (for a normal 3.8 997) a bargain. The new one will be 50K more..will it be so much faster?
I would even go that far saying that in 5 years, normal 991 GT3s (used ones) will be worth less than second hand 997 GT3RS. Here in Germany 991 loose 30K € after 5000Km (!) (look at 993 turbo vs 996 turbo)
PS: I admire you guys in the US, you realized that 997 GT3 (RS) are something special..and therefore prices went up agian
. In Germany the market is currently flooded with 991s...much more supply than demand. The GT3 997 is however not sufferiung so much from it as the quantities are limited. However, demand is also not so high either..here we cannot speak about a price hike - in the US you can see it.We will see what happens...
Interesting thread as I just purchased a 4900 mile, non tracked .2 RS a month ago. I was going to hold out for the new 991 GT3, but to me the GT3 RS captures the essence of what Porsche is/was all about. It is raw, visceral, noisy...very mechanical...you can feel the shakes and shudders of that awesome Mezger engine through your bones. It is such an engaging car.
As far as value I made an incredible deal and have been offerred $12K over my purchase price already. Not going to happen though. The RS IMHO is a special car, last of the Mezger engine, an aspirational vehicle, relatively devoid of electronic nannies (as compared with the 991's) and is the pinnacle of the 997platform. I believe it will have legs from a collectors standpoint, or at least hold it's value better than most. That's not why I bought it though. It is an absolute joy to drive, streeet or track, and I've got a long way to go before I'll get even close exploring it's potential. I'm looking forward to the journey.
As far as value I made an incredible deal and have been offerred $12K over my purchase price already. Not going to happen though. The RS IMHO is a special car, last of the Mezger engine, an aspirational vehicle, relatively devoid of electronic nannies (as compared with the 991's) and is the pinnacle of the 997platform. I believe it will have legs from a collectors standpoint, or at least hold it's value better than most. That's not why I bought it though. It is an absolute joy to drive, streeet or track, and I've got a long way to go before I'll get even close exploring it's potential. I'm looking forward to the journey.
Back when the 997.1 gt3 rs came out there was a lot of talk how the premium was worth it, the values would hold, collectors car , etc. everything changed when the .2 rolled in.
This will continue -- the supply is not small enough for continual price increase, and technology is evolving extremely quickly.
This will continue -- the supply is not small enough for continual price increase, and technology is evolving extremely quickly.
Also, the changes from garden variety 997.1 GT3 to 997.2 GT3 RS 4.0 were evolutionary, so there wasn't necessarily a trade off in feel or involvement to get a car that was faster on the road or track (and offering a better ride, as well!)
The 991 GT3 (RS) is an unknown - for sure it will be fast, but no one in this thread doubts that. It'll take more to sell them to this audience. I hope it's a great car - will make the .2 RS more affordable!
Any thoughts on the 3.8 RS vs. 4.0 RS price delta? Will it remain, will it shrink, will it grow? If the consensus here is that 3.8 RS prices are rising (which they evidently are, we're just debating cause and effect), what about the Cassandras that said that 4.0 prices would fall?
11-22-2012, 05:24 PM
#51
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Any thoughts on the 3.8 RS vs. 4.0 RS price delta? Will it remain, will it shrink, will it grow? If the consensus here is that 3.8 RS prices are rising (which they evidently are, we're just debating cause and effect), what about the Cassandras that said that 4.0 prices would fall?
5 to 10 years from now, when a PDK Cayman is easily faster than me on the track, people will not think that the small performance advantage of 4.0 over 3.8 is significant at all.
I also predict that a blue/gold RS will be worth slightly more than the other color combos.
11-22-2012, 05:48 PM
#52
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Given the same car condition and mileage, a 4.0RS should always cost more than a 3.8RS, but I predict that the delta will continue to shrink until it reaches about 10K and then sits there.
5 to 10 years from now, when a PDK Cayman is easily faster than me on the track, people will not think that the small performance advantage of 4.0 over 3.8 is significant at all.
I also predict that a blue/gold RS will be worth slightly more than the other color combos.
5 to 10 years from now, when a PDK Cayman is easily faster than me on the track, people will not think that the small performance advantage of 4.0 over 3.8 is significant at all.
I also predict that a blue/gold RS will be worth slightly more than the other color combos.
Last edited by Nizer; 11-22-2012 at 08:06 PM.
11-22-2012, 05:48 PM
#53
Given the same car condition and mileage, a 4.0RS should always cost more than a 3.8RS, but I predict that the delta will continue to shrink until it reaches about 10K and then sits there.
5 to 10 years from now, when a PDK Cayman is easily faster than me on the track, people will not think that the small performance advantage of 4.0 over 3.8 is significant at all.
I also predict that a blue/gold RS will be worth slightly more than the other color combos.
5 to 10 years from now, when a PDK Cayman is easily faster than me on the track, people will not think that the small performance advantage of 4.0 over 3.8 is significant at all.
I also predict that a blue/gold RS will be worth slightly more than the other color combos.
11-22-2012, 08:03 PM
#55
Example low mile (3600) nice color combo RS. May go for $130, I think!
Same price level, IIRC, for similar car back in May this year.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...t_15563wt_1002
Same price level, IIRC, for similar car back in May this year.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...t_15563wt_1002
11-22-2012, 09:20 PM
#56
Nordschleife Master
at least RL keeps resales value up, we all convince each other how much a GT3 is worth. To the general public a 991S is better....if I win the powerbal this weekend I will buy one and prove my point
3.8 RS is a $115k ish car to general public, say you cant find one look harder
4.0RS with some miles is a $150kish car....go try to trade one in and you will find value of your car....buyt in that case every seat has an ***...and not a lot of seats
Track either and rack some miles up its worth less
I still stand my ground, SCUD is a much much better car
3.8 RS is a $115k ish car to general public, say you cant find one look harder
4.0RS with some miles is a $150kish car....go try to trade one in and you will find value of your car....buyt in that case every seat has an ***...and not a lot of seats
Track either and rack some miles up its worth less
I still stand my ground, SCUD is a much much better car
11-23-2012, 12:03 AM
#58
GT3 player par excellence
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Yep, drives me nuts. I'm always trying to get the best deal so I don't get hurt. I'm okay with a little depreciation...just don't want to take a beating. I need to simply enjoy the cars. Good point Moot.
This is not confirmed and I would bet manual will still be available on the 991's. Manuals are on the way out, but not this round. Expect both tranny's to be available. I drove a C2S 992 and it wasn't bad. Nice exhaust note, etc. Wasn't as raw as the 997's. I believe the 991 GT3 will be a blast. For now, I don't know what to buy!
This is not confirmed and I would bet manual will still be available on the 991's. Manuals are on the way out, but not this round. Expect both tranny's to be available. I drove a C2S 992 and it wasn't bad. Nice exhaust note, etc. Wasn't as raw as the 997's. I believe the 991 GT3 will be a blast. For now, I don't know what to buy!
11-23-2012, 12:05 AM
#59
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11-23-2012, 12:35 AM
#60
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The more I learned about the 991 GT3, the more I wanted a 997.2 RS.. it's the last of the Mezger motor. Last of the manual tranny. And last of the driver's car. Porsche seems to be evolving the GT3 to target more buyers for higher sales (vs. solely purists). Sure 991 will be faster, but who cares if the experience is boring and not involved. Plus, I won't buy first generation of new models (learned lesson already). I don't want to buy a non-refined product. However, I do see myself selling the RS once the 991 cups are out... cups are another story though.
Please don't tell me there is official word from Porsche that all GT3s will be double clutchers. That just would not make sense.