991 GT3 Spec - Porsche Please Read
04-03-2012, 12:42 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
As I read through the above I'm starting to realize, there's a bunch of porsche buyers (myself incl.) who'd want (and pay up for) a Cup R that's barely street legal. Maybe that's where the line can be drawn: a GT3 that's marginally civilized (within the context of a GT car) and which can be specced to resemble the modern luxuries of a 991. Then a *****-out RS with the absolute minimum. Optional: common-sense-be-damned suspension, gearbox, cage and aero.
I'm all for a sequential manual box. Who wants a PDK when a sequential offers so much more in RAWNESS and lighter weight?
If history's any indication, the GT3 will probably debut at the power level of the outgoing RS i.e. 450bhp. The 991 RS will probably start where the RS4.0 left off, i.e. 500bhp. Porsche you're getting too predictable--surprise us on the upside if you will!! Whatever you do with the engine, keep it dry-sumped, and fix those damn coolant hoses!
I'm all for a sequential manual box. Who wants a PDK when a sequential offers so much more in RAWNESS and lighter weight?
If history's any indication, the GT3 will probably debut at the power level of the outgoing RS i.e. 450bhp. The 991 RS will probably start where the RS4.0 left off, i.e. 500bhp. Porsche you're getting too predictable--surprise us on the upside if you will!! Whatever you do with the engine, keep it dry-sumped, and fix those damn coolant hoses!
04-03-2012, 01:09 AM
#33
Race Director
Great list everyone...really hope Porsche reads this and take a lot of it to heart.
For my own personal self serving want.....PDK! PLEASE....this is a physical must for me.
Other than that....my wants:
PDK
No Sunroof
5 Lug wheels
RELIABILITY
PSM Off mean Off
Test the car at Daytona and fix the warning fault codes when over 130mph on the high banks PLEASE!
For my own personal self serving want.....PDK! PLEASE....this is a physical must for me.
Other than that....my wants:
PDK
No Sunroof
5 Lug wheels
RELIABILITY
PSM Off mean Off
Test the car at Daytona and fix the warning fault codes when over 130mph on the high banks PLEASE!
04-03-2012, 01:10 AM
#34
I want the new GT series of cars to prove themselves on the track more than anything.
I'm not a pro driver & I don't mind paying the entry fee for these cars, but I want a tried & true sports car.
As fast as the GT-R is, it hasn't won any big races.
I'm not a pro driver & I don't mind paying the entry fee for these cars, but I want a tried & true sports car.
As fast as the GT-R is, it hasn't won any big races.
04-03-2012, 01:16 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
wait a minute. How is porsche going to put a sequential in a road going car? I would love it, but it's not going to happen. why? because there will be buyers who say the shifts are too harsh.
i.e., BMW M3 e46 with SMG (sequential) vs. e90 DCT. everyone hated the SMG when the DCT came out. They said it shifts so much, get this, smoother.
i.e., BMW M3 e46 with SMG (sequential) vs. e90 DCT. everyone hated the SMG when the DCT came out. They said it shifts so much, get this, smoother.
04-03-2012, 07:47 AM
#36
Drifting
04-03-2012, 08:33 AM
#37
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Great thread ! Letter to Porsche!
I'm giving serious thought... to sticking it on the top.
+1 to Nizer's list
and
All electronics should / must be switchable.
And off means OFF!
And no PASM
real suspension
and no active anti roll bars
Great thread. I pulled over to type this. Ignore the typos
I'm giving serious thought... to sticking it on the top.
+1 to Nizer's list
and
All electronics should / must be switchable.
And off means OFF!
And no PASM
real suspension
and no active anti roll bars
Great thread. I pulled over to type this. Ignore the typos
I agree with all the above.
Charge us more to take stuff out is OK, charge us more to put stuff in is OK too.
Clubsport $$ option
Motorsport ABS $$ option
Take out radio, CL, A/C $$ option
CF roof and fenders $$ option
All OK, just make it possible.
Don't be greedy a$$holses and charge 5K for a color that costs the same to put on, like 5K white on the .1RS or 3K for grey in the .2RS, then make .2RS white no charge and metallic blue no charge.
1. It must be very durable on track.
2. It must be lighter
3. It does not have to be faster for now if that means we get 1 and 2.
Just fix what needs fixing from 997RS and 991 C2S.
Charge us more to take stuff out is OK, charge us more to put stuff in is OK too.
Clubsport $$ option
Motorsport ABS $$ option
Take out radio, CL, A/C $$ option
CF roof and fenders $$ option
All OK, just make it possible.
Don't be greedy a$$holses and charge 5K for a color that costs the same to put on, like 5K white on the .1RS or 3K for grey in the .2RS, then make .2RS white no charge and metallic blue no charge.
1. It must be very durable on track.
2. It must be lighter
3. It does not have to be faster for now if that means we get 1 and 2.
Just fix what needs fixing from 997RS and 991 C2S.
Re: the wing, I kind of like the sleeper look - subtle flairs, aero tweeks, 265/325 tires - people would know. Whatever as long as it works on track.
Thanks for all the comments guys. Let's hope AP takes some of this to heart and still has the power to make things happen.
Speaking of AP, where is Savyboy on this thread? Must be out driving his 4.0.....
04-03-2012, 12:25 PM
#40
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Guys - I wanted to clear up a misconception aboiut the 997 Cup's power steering. I keep seeing posts where people ask for Hydraulic steering, or in the worst case, the Cup's Electric steering.
The 997 Cup has Hydraulic power steering, however, its hydraulic pump is driven by an external electric motor. This is not the worst case, it is the best case.
Having hydraulic power steering is what gives us the good feel and feedback (compared to other power steering systems - manual is still superior, but doesn't make sense for a heavy modern car).
Having the hydraulic pump driven by an external electric motor means that the car's engine is not wasting any of its power to turn the pump.
Note: This is very different than the electric power steering in the 991 Carrera which has an electric motor attached to the steering rack that moves the rack in response to sensors built into the steering column (that can tell if you're trying to turn left or right).
So, to summarize:
Manual steering is the best in feel/feedback, but is only useable in a lighter car
Hybrid hydraulic steering as used on Cup (with hydraulic pump driven by external electric motor) is the next best alternative (no engine power wasted on the steering pump - motor only turns pump as fast as needed - not proportional to engine revs).
Standard hydraulic steering (with pump driven by engine) has the same feel as above, but loses several horsepower to turn the pump (and can overheat the pump with constant high revs - see Cayman).
Electric power steering (no hydraulic steering rack nor pump) is efficient but numb - not best choice for GT3.
The 997 Cup has Hydraulic power steering, however, its hydraulic pump is driven by an external electric motor. This is not the worst case, it is the best case.
Having hydraulic power steering is what gives us the good feel and feedback (compared to other power steering systems - manual is still superior, but doesn't make sense for a heavy modern car).
Having the hydraulic pump driven by an external electric motor means that the car's engine is not wasting any of its power to turn the pump.
Note: This is very different than the electric power steering in the 991 Carrera which has an electric motor attached to the steering rack that moves the rack in response to sensors built into the steering column (that can tell if you're trying to turn left or right).
So, to summarize:
Manual steering is the best in feel/feedback, but is only useable in a lighter car
Hybrid hydraulic steering as used on Cup (with hydraulic pump driven by external electric motor) is the next best alternative (no engine power wasted on the steering pump - motor only turns pump as fast as needed - not proportional to engine revs).
Standard hydraulic steering (with pump driven by engine) has the same feel as above, but loses several horsepower to turn the pump (and can overheat the pump with constant high revs - see Cayman).
Electric power steering (no hydraulic steering rack nor pump) is efficient but numb - not best choice for GT3.
04-03-2012, 12:32 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
04-03-2012, 12:42 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Guys - I wanted to clear up a misconception aboiut the 997 Cup's power steering. I keep seeing posts where people ask for Hydraulic steering, or in the worst case, the Cup's Electric steering.
The 997 Cup has Hydraulic power steering, however, its hydraulic pump is driven by an external electric motor. This is not the worst case, it is the best case.
Having hydraulic power steering is what gives us the good feel and feedback (compared to other power steering systems - manual is still superior, but doesn't make sense for a heavy modern car).
Having the hydraulic pump driven by an external electric motor means that the car's engine is not wasting any of its power to turn the pump.
Note: This is very different than the electric power steering in the 991 Carrera which has an electric motor attached to the steering rack that moves the rack in response to sensors built into the steering column (that can tell if you're trying to turn left or right).
So, to summarize:
Manual steering is the best in feel/feedback, but is only useable in a lighter car
Hybrid hydraulic steering as used on Cup (with hydraulic pump driven by external electric motor) is the next best alternative (no engine power wasted on the steering pump - motor only turns pump as fast as needed - not proportional to engine revs).
Standard hydraulic steering (with pump driven by engine) has the same feel as above, but loses several horsepower to turn the pump (and can overheat the pump with constant high revs - see Cayman).
Electric power steering (no hydraulic steering rack nor pump) is efficient but numb - not best choice for GT3.
The 997 Cup has Hydraulic power steering, however, its hydraulic pump is driven by an external electric motor. This is not the worst case, it is the best case.
Having hydraulic power steering is what gives us the good feel and feedback (compared to other power steering systems - manual is still superior, but doesn't make sense for a heavy modern car).
Having the hydraulic pump driven by an external electric motor means that the car's engine is not wasting any of its power to turn the pump.
Note: This is very different than the electric power steering in the 991 Carrera which has an electric motor attached to the steering rack that moves the rack in response to sensors built into the steering column (that can tell if you're trying to turn left or right).
So, to summarize:
Manual steering is the best in feel/feedback, but is only useable in a lighter car
Hybrid hydraulic steering as used on Cup (with hydraulic pump driven by external electric motor) is the next best alternative (no engine power wasted on the steering pump - motor only turns pump as fast as needed - not proportional to engine revs).
Standard hydraulic steering (with pump driven by engine) has the same feel as above, but loses several horsepower to turn the pump (and can overheat the pump with constant high revs - see Cayman).
Electric power steering (no hydraulic steering rack nor pump) is efficient but numb - not best choice for GT3.
04-03-2012, 12:50 PM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On the other hand, the manual steering on my 73 911 feels almost disconcertingly light (lighter than most power steering system at any speed over 20mph) - however, it weights up beautifully as soon as you enter a corner and gives an incredible amount of detailed information about the grip remaining (or not) from the front axle. It also has fantastic on-center feel (before they went to a slower ratio rack with the 993 and then variable rack with the 997).
I would think a new 911 weighing around 2,500 pounds with the current tire sizes would be ok for a manual rack (maybe 2,700 if they made the wheels proportionally narrower).
Ever drive a Lotus Elise/Exige? They have a nice manual steering system - isn't heavy, despite the tiny steering wheel with no leverage.
Last edited by GrantG; 04-03-2012 at 01:10 PM.
04-03-2012, 12:54 PM
#45
Race Director
PDK...PDK...PDK...PDK...PDK...PDK...PDK...Hey Porsche...PDK!!!!!!!