Notices
997 GT2/GT3 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Porsche North Houston

DIY Coolant Fitting Fix with Motor In the Car

 
Old 02-10-2012, 03:10 PM
  #31  
NJ-GT
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Everglades
Posts: 6,583
Default

What I find much more frustrating is the pictures posted by Rob, where Porsche clearly acknowledges the defect, and puts a solution in place for the cars they run on endurance races, where a failure like this have a high cost for the Porsche Motorsports image.

They should issue a recall, or a TSB , the risk is pretty high.

In the hypothetical case that somebody wrecks a car due to a GT3 coolant leak known to be a defect, I wonder how Porsche would defend themselves on a lawsuit? this failure can cause an accident on racetracks or public roads.

It is probably time to send letters to Porsche asking for a campaign resolution. This company is too proud to issue a recall, so let them put another name on it (Safety campaign, TSB, whatever), but have them resolve it.

Or Porsche could wait passively, and have to deal with the victims of an unfortunate accident caused by this failure, and be forced to still fix everything out there plus the compensation for the victim loses. The consequences of this failure can be deadly.
NJ-GT is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 04:48 PM
  #32  
dcottam
User
 
dcottam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 68
Default

Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
I can't speak for Cup Cars, but the GT3R/RS/RSR series cars, or some of them at least, used threaded fittings like this:
Anyone know if the threaded fittings are available to purchase anywhere? If the engine is going to be dropped, i would think switching the original fittings for threaded ones would be the preferable option?
dcottam is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 05:27 PM
  #33  
Serge944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Serge944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: California
Posts: 7,969
Default

Originally Posted by dcottam View Post
Anyone know if the threaded fittings are available to purchase anywhere? If the engine is going to be dropped, i would think switching the original fittings for threaded ones would be the preferable option?
That would be an additional cost and is worse than welding, since you're introducing additional fasteners. By welding you're making it a single continuous piece.
Serge944 is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 05:34 PM
  #34  
Steve W
User
Thread Starter
 
Steve W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: PV Estates, CA
Posts: 332
Default

Originally Posted by The Greek View Post
I find it frustrating that PCA puts out newletters and mandates in the coolant line issue, but Porsche continues to play stupid and act like it doesn't exist.

From a warranty and DE perspective, us drivers really have no options. If we use wetter, or even better weld lines, Porsche voids warranty. If we do nothing, then we risk our safety, and also the safety of others on the track. Its garbage....
Admission of defect, assumption of liability.


Originally Posted by NJ-GT View Post
Steve,

Thanks for the great and detailed write-up, and the pictures as well.

The worse thing is not to do anything. These fittings fail. I had 2 failures with my 996 GT3, and both of them happened at a racetrack.

I wonder if Porsche has done anything in this regard with the GT3 Cup/Cup R/RSR? This type of failure can ruin a race in ALMS/Grand-Am/SuperCup.

I hope all is well, I miss running at El Toro.
Rad, all is well thanks. And Mike complains of the lack of TTOD competition and mentions you now and then - I think he misses you!
Steve W is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 05:49 PM
  #35  
Rob S
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 586
Default

Originally Posted by dcottam View Post
Anyone know if the threaded fittings are available to purchase anywhere? If the engine is going to be dropped, i would think switching the original fittings for threaded ones would be the preferable option?
The parts I showed were from a GT3 RS racecar. If you could find them (new or used), they'd likely cost a fortune and it wouldn't be worth it when there are other repair options that are cheaper. Also, they likely aren't exactly the same as street car parts and wouldn't be a direct swap in. Someone on this board (was it Savyboy?) did modify street car coolant manifolds to have threaded fittings like this. It was a beautiful job. But probably not cheap. Perhaps someone else can chime in with a link to that thread.

Originally Posted by Serge944 View Post
That would be an additional cost and is worse than welding, since you're introducing additional fasteners. By welding you're making it a single continuous piece.
I agree that it may be more expensive than welding, but I think it would be the ultimate fix. I don't think that having a threaded joint would be a problem at all. That's how most fluid lines are attached on cars -- fuel lines, oil lines, brake lines and other coolant lines. And buildings have water, gas, and sewer lines that are threaded But to retrofit threaded parts would be a lot of work.
Rob S is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:07 PM
  #36  
Serge944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Serge944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: California
Posts: 7,969
Default

There's nothing wrong with threads at all. I'm just having a hard time coming up with a single benefit to justify the additional cost. ...and the guys selling the aftermarket weld-in fittings were just misleading people into buying something they don't need.
Serge944 is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:03 PM
  #37  
savyboy
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
savyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 3,362
Default

Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
Someone on this board (was it Savyboy?) did modify street car coolant manifolds to have threaded fittings like this. It was a beautiful job. But probably not cheap. Perhaps someone else can chime in with a link to that thread.
I agree that it may be more expensive than welding, but I think it would be the ultimate fix. I don't think that having a threaded joint would be a problem at all.
It was me. Why I take on some of these challenges I don't know I had new fittings CNC machined and the OE casting threaded. Fittings were locked in place for the next thousand years with the Loctite 2620. Impossible (within reason) to do in place so had to R&R engine.

Given an attention to detail (hard to find!) that Steve did on his "pinning" job I would personally prefer that solution if I needed this done. The huge challenge is finding someone to do this caliber of work. That is why up to now I would not have considered a pin job due to the concern of metal shavings getting into the engine coolant passages.

Some of my stuff below-massive overkill, as Steve says, the system operates around 15psi or less. Don't bother trying to find someone to do that, you wouldn't be willing to pay the price, and no shop would be willing to get the machine work done- it is a bitch to tap those castings on center.
Attached Images     
savyboy is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:16 PM
  #38  
Nizer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Nizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Beta Testing
Posts: 10,861
Default

Originally Posted by NJ-GT View Post
It is probably time to send letters to Porsche asking for a campaign resolution. This company is too proud to issue a recall, so let them put another name on it (Safety campaign, TSB, whatever), but have them resolve it.
I believe that's already been tried and it's not like there's any lack of owner awareness for Porsche to claim ignorance. At this stage you'd likely be better served with a letter campaign to the NTSB.
Nizer is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 09:25 PM
  #39  
911rox
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
911rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Regretfully not at a track... :(
Posts: 2,511
Default

Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
I believe that's already been tried and it's not like there's any lack of owner awareness for Porsche to claim ignorance. At this stage you'd likely be better served with a letter campaign to the NTSB.
It has been done by individuals but not on mass... The idea was floated several times to draft a standard letter and have each member send it... We need to follow through with some action rather than just the ideas... A cc copy to authorities like the NTSB would be even better!
911rox is offline  
Old 02-10-2012, 10:44 PM
  #40  
Rob S
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 586
Default

To Steve W, Savyboy, Dan at Sharkworks, and all the (other) people who have shown their beautiful welding jobs, congratulations and thank you for your creativity and willingness to share the details of your fixes. It's incredible to see these different solutions, each with their own benefits, all of which are likely to be plenty effective for what we have to do. I had mine welded, and I'm very happy with the results. But if i were doing it again, I'd consider one of the pinning methods to save some work. But I drool over what Savyboy did, because it's the kind of overkill I really appreciate as an engineer and car geek.

But with all the reports of catastrophic coolant pipe failures, and with all these resourceful privateers who have proven they can devise competent solutions to the problem, why is the mother ship still gluing those tubes in?
Rob S is offline  
Old 02-11-2012, 11:25 PM
  #41  
FFaust
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
FFaust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Limehouse, ON
Posts: 5,784
Default

Steve, thanks for taking the time to post this on here. It also shows that Porsche could initiate a campaign or issue a TSB at a reasonable cost, which would not require dropping all of these engines.

Pinning is very elegant, cheaper and easier, can be disassembled, and the hole can be welded shut down the road if the owner decides to go the TIG route.
FFaust is offline  
Old 02-12-2012, 12:16 PM
  #42  
Snowboarder54
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Snowboarder54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gualala
Posts: 1,228
Default

This is an excellent thread. Luckily for me James locked mine tight when he did the 3.9 conversion two years ago. Before then every time I pulled into my garage and shut it down I could smell coolant. Took the car to the dealer several times early on and complained, they always said it checked out, no problems. Since the SW fix, no more coolant smell. Savyboy you are a maniac! But I like the way you roll, overkill is always good.
Snowboarder54 is offline  
Old 02-12-2012, 01:04 PM
  #43  
utkinpol
Super User
 
utkinpol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 5,887
Default

Originally Posted by NJ-GT View Post
What I find much more frustrating is the pictures posted by Rob, where Porsche clearly acknowledges the defect, and puts a solution in place for the cars they run on endurance races, where a failure like this have a high cost for the Porsche Motorsports image.

They should issue a recall, or a TSB , the risk is pretty high.
sure, they also should have issued recall for all motors with old dual row IMS bearing, also a recall for issues with 6th cylinder cooling resulting with U shape cracks, you can continue this list for a while. with gt3 cars it is just a loose hose, with m96/m97 motors is a total engine failure with no core to return.
utkinpol is offline  
Old 02-13-2012, 03:46 PM
  #44  
AudiOn19s
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
AudiOn19s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Columbus OH
Posts: 4,367
Default

Steve,
Since you were alraedy in there I have to ask your opinion. There are two more fittings on the 996 cars.

They are the two angled fittings highlighted in post 1 and post 4 of this thread
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...ts-needed.html

Thoughts on if those are do-able in the car. I think more disassembly is required for the one behind the power steering pump, that is the fitting that blew on my car last year and I fixed with epoxy.

The other curved one I'm not sure how accessable it may or may not be.

Andy
AudiOn19s is offline  
Old 02-13-2012, 05:20 PM
  #45  
Steve W
User
Thread Starter
 
Steve W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: PV Estates, CA
Posts: 332
Default

On a 996, if you're talking about this piece below, it's the same piece as on a 997, just a different variation and looks to be just as accessible:



997 version (below):



The other fitting if you're talking about this one on the 996 power steering bracket should be accessible after removing the power steering pump. You should be able to pin it on the side from the inside with an angle driver.



Post pics when and how you get it done for everyone's info.
Steve W is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: DIY Coolant Fitting Fix with Motor In the Car


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: