Superforgiata OZ's..weight load rating
01-30-2012, 10:16 PM
#31
I believe these are the centrelock version...
http://www.bbs-racing-wheels.com/seiten/htm.txt/ree.htm
http://www.bbs-racing-wheels.com/seiten/htm.txt/ree.htm
My friend has a ''used'' set for sale. ready to go.
01-30-2012, 10:25 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Yes, he told me too.
Does not know what he wants for it though?!
My oem's and $1K and all the beer you can drink at the Winghouse; In case our friend is reading this :-)
Just kidding what are these worth? I heard like 10K?!
Does not know what he wants for it though?!
My oem's and $1K and all the beer you can drink at the Winghouse; In case our friend is reading this :-)
Just kidding what are these worth? I heard like 10K?!
01-31-2012, 01:41 AM
#34
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It was your initial comments in this thread about loading rating numbers being "dangerous" which got my attention but having done a bit of research I am happy that BBS and OZ know what they are doing and your opinion is just that.......
Your quote above, especially "they are not racing wheels" seems pretty silly since currently no one can actually buy the BBS Fi wheels since the BBS Motorsport department who designed and make them have been too busy making real "racing wheels", like for Formula 1, that they have not had the time to turn their attention to producing a few sets of POS Fis for their poorly endowed "street wheel" customers
Your quote above, especially "they are not racing wheels" seems pretty silly since currently no one can actually buy the BBS Fi wheels since the BBS Motorsport department who designed and make them have been too busy making real "racing wheels", like for Formula 1, that they have not had the time to turn their attention to producing a few sets of POS Fis for their poorly endowed "street wheel" customers
BBS-FI are street wheels. They are good for the usual coffee break, tea time, car show, garage queen, and 55mph typical driver. They might be good for the occasional track day rolling chicane driver too.
I'm on my 3rd set of OZ Allegeritta in the Cayman, a car that sees 1/2 the track duties of my other track car. The amount of wheels weights I had to put at my last tire installation is horrendous (after 4 days at Homestead and 2 days at Sebring). With this said, I'm about to buy a 4th set of these same wheels, because they are cheap, light, and I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. I don't care about replacing bended wheels once in a while, if the price is ok. I just need to stay away from rumble strips and curbs with them, because they can't take the abuse of my CCW 1-piece or HRE Competition.
01-31-2012, 02:31 AM
#35
BBS E88 and BBS RE are racing wheels, strong and reliable.
BBS-FI are street wheels. They are good for the usual coffee break, tea time, car show, garage queen, and 55mph typical driver. They might be good for the occasional track day rolling chicane driver too.
I'm on my 3rd set of OZ Allegeritta in the Cayman, a car that sees 1/2 the track duties of my other track car. The amount of wheels weights I had to put at my last tire installation is horrendous (after 4 days at Homestead and 2 days at Sebring). With this said, I'm about to buy a 4th set of these same wheels, because they are cheap, light, and I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. I don't care about replacing bended wheels once in a while, if the price is ok. I just need to stay away from rumble strips and curbs with them, because they can't take the abuse of my CCW 1-piece or HRE Competition.
BBS-FI are street wheels. They are good for the usual coffee break, tea time, car show, garage queen, and 55mph typical driver. They might be good for the occasional track day rolling chicane driver too.
I'm on my 3rd set of OZ Allegeritta in the Cayman, a car that sees 1/2 the track duties of my other track car. The amount of wheels weights I had to put at my last tire installation is horrendous (after 4 days at Homestead and 2 days at Sebring). With this said, I'm about to buy a 4th set of these same wheels, because they are cheap, light, and I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. I don't care about replacing bended wheels once in a while, if the price is ok. I just need to stay away from rumble strips and curbs with them, because they can't take the abuse of my CCW 1-piece or HRE Competition.
Thats why I bought the forgiatas. I knew I would be abusing the wheels on track. The trick is to wait till the tires are good and hot before attacking kerbs and whatnot.
Still, if I do have some sort of failure I will be sure to post it here first. Am pretty happy with the wheels though, they look great, and am confident with them at the track under high load.
@ Damon - thanks for all that info. It would have been completely surprising to me that OZ would put out a wheel of ANY kind to fit a gt3 that somehow could not take track work, especially the forgiatas which are in the ~$5k/set price range.
01-31-2012, 07:33 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Relax guys.
I don't think OZ expects you to do dynamics calculations when buying wheels... Those max values refer to static load, from which a theoretical dynamic load is calculated and then an X safety factor is applied on top.
Your static load in the back is about 1000 lb per wheel, well within the rated 1375 lb.
I don't think OZ expects you to do dynamics calculations when buying wheels... Those max values refer to static load, from which a theoretical dynamic load is calculated and then an X safety factor is applied on top.
Your static load in the back is about 1000 lb per wheel, well within the rated 1375 lb.
Guys:
The GAWR ratings for a 2010 Porsche GT3 (door placard) are:
- Front gross axle weight 1433 lbs => 325 kg per wheel
- Rear gross axle weight 2326 lbs => 528 kg per wheel
This is the maximum static load per wheel. OZ designed and tested the wheel per that STATIC load. The design and tested dynamic loads are much higher than that to take into account impact loads, cornering forces, and stick (race) tires, and overall use.
For development and product testing, they use LBF Biaxial Wheel Testing Machine. It's the most stringent and demanding test of wheel engineering in the industry. Only OZ and a handful of OEM possess this technology (LBF Fraunhofer Search German Institut patent).
The machine simulates the behavior of the wheel as it would perform at the Nürburgring track, covering a distance of 35.000Km under these simulated conditions. The radial and axial strengths simulate the most severe driving dynamics: rapid acceleration and braking, negotiating road surface anomalies, and cornering.
Even though it is not compulsory to undertake the Biaxial test to satisfy the requirements of homologation bodies such as TÜV, OZ exploits its experience in using such machines for the development of its own products and the promotion of more advanced technology.
OZ's Quality Control tests (taken from their website):
• Chemical analysis on raw materials and castings
• Ultrasonic Inspection to reveal defects and impurities
• Air Tightness to identify any air leaks caused by porosity (wheel submerged in a tub of water, air enjected under 5-7 atm)
• Dye Penetrant Inspection to identify any superficial cracks or microfaults (chromatic contrast under UV light)
• Fatigue test wheel subjected to the same mechanical stress of a car driving along a bend
• Rolling test simulates the behaviour and reactions of the wheel along a straight stretch(maximum load, 100 km/h)
• Impact test (crash test) simulation of stresses that the wheel might suffer on the road
• Dimensional check to assess the dimensions, circularity and concentricity of the wheel (tolerances of a few tenths of mm)
• X-Ray testing
OZ is covered by a 13 million euro Product Liability Insurance Policy also.
Remember that when it comes to overall strength within the industry, OZ is one of just a very few that incorporates all of these testing process into their R&D and finished product. There are only a handful of manufacturers doing all this. Remember the center lock wheels were developed specifically for Porsche, so you can be sure they have been tested for anything the race market can throw at them. It's important to remind everyone also that wheels (from anyone) have to be inspected periodically for stress damages that can present from use. Any wheel made will eventually fail from the stresses that they are repeatedly subjected to on a track.
If you break a Superforgiata on the track, you were probably going to break anything.
While we are on the subject, the load rating on a comparably sized Ultraleggera centerlock is 915 lbs. front and 1377 rear. As you can imagine we have sold MANY of the sets out there, and I have only seen one broken one. It happened when he slid sideways into a guardrail at speed. At half the price of a forged wheel (and only about 10% heavier) bang for the buck it's still arguably probably the best center lock out there.
I hope that helps this issue out. I'll be monitoring for any more questions I can answer.
The GAWR ratings for a 2010 Porsche GT3 (door placard) are:
- Front gross axle weight 1433 lbs => 325 kg per wheel
- Rear gross axle weight 2326 lbs => 528 kg per wheel
This is the maximum static load per wheel. OZ designed and tested the wheel per that STATIC load. The design and tested dynamic loads are much higher than that to take into account impact loads, cornering forces, and stick (race) tires, and overall use.
For development and product testing, they use LBF Biaxial Wheel Testing Machine. It's the most stringent and demanding test of wheel engineering in the industry. Only OZ and a handful of OEM possess this technology (LBF Fraunhofer Search German Institut patent).
The machine simulates the behavior of the wheel as it would perform at the Nürburgring track, covering a distance of 35.000Km under these simulated conditions. The radial and axial strengths simulate the most severe driving dynamics: rapid acceleration and braking, negotiating road surface anomalies, and cornering.
Even though it is not compulsory to undertake the Biaxial test to satisfy the requirements of homologation bodies such as TÜV, OZ exploits its experience in using such machines for the development of its own products and the promotion of more advanced technology.
OZ's Quality Control tests (taken from their website):
• Chemical analysis on raw materials and castings
• Ultrasonic Inspection to reveal defects and impurities
• Air Tightness to identify any air leaks caused by porosity (wheel submerged in a tub of water, air enjected under 5-7 atm)
• Dye Penetrant Inspection to identify any superficial cracks or microfaults (chromatic contrast under UV light)
• Fatigue test wheel subjected to the same mechanical stress of a car driving along a bend
• Rolling test simulates the behaviour and reactions of the wheel along a straight stretch(maximum load, 100 km/h)
• Impact test (crash test) simulation of stresses that the wheel might suffer on the road
• Dimensional check to assess the dimensions, circularity and concentricity of the wheel (tolerances of a few tenths of mm)
• X-Ray testing
OZ is covered by a 13 million euro Product Liability Insurance Policy also.
Remember that when it comes to overall strength within the industry, OZ is one of just a very few that incorporates all of these testing process into their R&D and finished product. There are only a handful of manufacturers doing all this. Remember the center lock wheels were developed specifically for Porsche, so you can be sure they have been tested for anything the race market can throw at them. It's important to remind everyone also that wheels (from anyone) have to be inspected periodically for stress damages that can present from use. Any wheel made will eventually fail from the stresses that they are repeatedly subjected to on a track.
If you break a Superforgiata on the track, you were probably going to break anything.
While we are on the subject, the load rating on a comparably sized Ultraleggera centerlock is 915 lbs. front and 1377 rear. As you can imagine we have sold MANY of the sets out there, and I have only seen one broken one. It happened when he slid sideways into a guardrail at speed. At half the price of a forged wheel (and only about 10% heavier) bang for the buck it's still arguably probably the best center lock out there.
I hope that helps this issue out. I'll be monitoring for any more questions I can answer.
01-31-2012, 09:32 AM
#37
Former Vendor
My pleasure guys.
Remember, we are OZ America's US importer. I really want to be Rennlist's sole supplier of BBS and OZ, so please keep me in mind when you order!
Remember, we are OZ America's US importer. I really want to be Rennlist's sole supplier of BBS and OZ, so please keep me in mind when you order!
01-31-2012, 09:49 AM
#39
Former Vendor
BBS E88 and BBS RE are racing wheels, strong and reliable.
BBS-FI are street wheels. They are good for the usual coffee break, tea time, car show, garage queen, and 55mph typical driver. They might be good for the occasional track day rolling chicane driver too.
I'm on my 3rd set of OZ Allegeritta in the Cayman, a car that sees 1/2 the track duties of my other track car. The amount of wheels weights I had to put at my last tire installation is horrendous (after 4 days at Homestead and 2 days at Sebring). With this said, I'm about to buy a 4th set of these same wheels, because they are cheap, light, and I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. I don't care about replacing bended wheels once in a while, if the price is ok.
BBS-FI are street wheels. They are good for the usual coffee break, tea time, car show, garage queen, and 55mph typical driver. They might be good for the occasional track day rolling chicane driver too.
I'm on my 3rd set of OZ Allegeritta in the Cayman, a car that sees 1/2 the track duties of my other track car. The amount of wheels weights I had to put at my last tire installation is horrendous (after 4 days at Homestead and 2 days at Sebring). With this said, I'm about to buy a 4th set of these same wheels, because they are cheap, light, and I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. I don't care about replacing bended wheels once in a while, if the price is ok.
Also, BBS does not recommend the E88 wheel be used on the street. The barrel sections are formed rather thinly for weight and don't hold up well against potholes or sharp variations in road surface. also, with their price and very low US availability, I have yet to sell a set of the BBS FI wheels so cannot comment on their strength as of yet.
01-31-2012, 10:56 AM
#40
01-31-2012, 11:01 AM
#41
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Glad to hear the Allegeritas are working so well for you. This is the exact market OZ was trying to break into with the Allegerita. From the way that was written it sounds like they were knocked out of round by track use? If so I'd like to hear the details so I can relay it back to OZ. Maybe with the next set you can do a lateral runout and pre-balance-before-tires with a GSP9700 to get a baseline. I'd like to see just how far out track use knocks a new set.
Also, BBS does not recommend the E88 wheel be used on the street. The barrel sections are formed rather thinly for weight and don't hold up well against potholes or sharp variations in road surface. also, with their price and very low US availability, I have yet to sell a set of the BBS FI wheels so cannot comment on their strength as of yet.
Also, BBS does not recommend the E88 wheel be used on the street. The barrel sections are formed rather thinly for weight and don't hold up well against potholes or sharp variations in road surface. also, with their price and very low US availability, I have yet to sell a set of the BBS FI wheels so cannot comment on their strength as of yet.
I'm getting another set of Allegerittas this week (4th set of them), and will keep a detail on # of track sessions, and number of wheel weights added to get them balanced as they age. The current set of OZ in the Cayman have just 1 day at Homestead and 2 days at Sebring, will post pictures later with current wheel weights. They have over 10 autocrosses, and have been through 4 sets of tires
Since I moved to Florida, I've been using a GSP9700 for balancing and a DSP600 for alignment at a shop across the street. I do the alignment, I let the shop mount and balance the tires while I observe.
Thanks for your support
01-31-2012, 11:22 AM
#42
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Also, BBS does not recommend the E88 wheel be used on the street. The barrel sections are formed rather thinly for weight and don't hold up well against potholes or sharp variations in road surface. also, with their price and very low US availability, I have yet to sell a set of the BBS FI wheels so cannot comment on their strength as of yet.
I have run BBS E88 (aluminium centred) on my 993tt for many years (suitably treated for corrosion resistance) and they have coped fine on the street FWIW.
Your comments about FI wheels seem ignorant, BBS implicilty realise (see statement above about race wheels being unsuitable for the street) that describing the Fi as a "street wheel" means it actually has to be stronger in many ways than a "race wheel" so your comments are based on what ? seeing the wheels on poseur cars ?
The biggest German BBS Motorsport distributor replied thus when asked about
The Fi for 997GT2 fitment when I asked him if they have limited strength compared to a "race wheel":
Producing this kind of wheels for this kind of cars wouldn't make sense with limited strength.
FI wheels are highest quality wheels.
1 set is 8000,00 EUR. With this price there is no space for limited strenght.
Last edited by TB993tt; 01-31-2012 at 11:48 AM.
01-31-2012, 07:48 PM
#43
Discussion on wheels aside, I wanted to be sure to mention Damon at Tirerack is AWESOME to deal with. And I had plenty of dealings with him over the past couple of years. If you buy from TR be sure to let Damon assist you, he knows Porsches and and is an all around good man.
01-31-2012, 07:57 PM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
+++++++ for Damon, and don't forget to put his name when you order online at tirerack.com, I sometimes forget and regret days later when I notice the mistake.
When is TireRack going to carry Volk Racing/Rays for the 2010 GT3/GT3 RS?
When is TireRack going to carry Volk Racing/Rays for the 2010 GT3/GT3 RS?
01-31-2012, 10:29 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Zero issues with them on the track getting double duty with the wife and I in the 997S. I got a set for the TT in the correct offsets and will use them as well.