Gt2 RS Shifter - is it really new?
12-17-2010, 04:24 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Once I got over the shock and awe of 620hp from the old 3.6L, I thought of it as just my GT3 RS with turbos fo an extra $110K. After about three sleepless nights, I decided to cancel my order. I sleep much better now.
12-17-2010, 04:42 PM
#33
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Another interesting bit of info from tuner that actually tested 3 of those 2RS cars; all of the owners (all experienced modded GT2 and turbo ex owners) were quite upset with the fact that the increase in boost over normal GT2 (ie 1.6 vs 1.4 bar) comes only if you accelerate from very low revs or standstill. Ie if you exit a corner at say 3.5 or 4k rpm and floor it then .. you only get 1.2 or 1.4 just like previous GT2.. Quite notable difference in torque and very strange. P had never programmed a tt or GT2 like this. When asked if there is a problem, the factory just replied "nope, it's just the way we programmed the car!" Probably to protect the rods/ pistons.
Needless to say that all 3 owners chose to reprogram the car on dyno to correct this.
Also on that particular chassis dyno the stock car power was NOT 90hp over standard GT2 on same dyno..
On the positive side i was told that the suspension & setup is a definite step forward to the standard GT2, even though its tricky on the limit (like a track car would usually be). I was told that driveability and feedback is pretty good, better compromise between comfort and handling than previous car. All components can be retrofitted though from GT3 and 3RS cars.. (I have done that + more cup components on my tt).
After all this I think overall this is very good car indeed, well setup by P motorsports but WAY too expensive. You can probably get within 95% of this with a std GT2 with 20k-25k in engine and suspension mods.
Needless to say that all 3 owners chose to reprogram the car on dyno to correct this.
Also on that particular chassis dyno the stock car power was NOT 90hp over standard GT2 on same dyno..
On the positive side i was told that the suspension & setup is a definite step forward to the standard GT2, even though its tricky on the limit (like a track car would usually be). I was told that driveability and feedback is pretty good, better compromise between comfort and handling than previous car. All components can be retrofitted though from GT3 and 3RS cars.. (I have done that + more cup components on my tt).
After all this I think overall this is very good car indeed, well setup by P motorsports but WAY too expensive. You can probably get within 95% of this with a std GT2 with 20k-25k in engine and suspension mods.
12-17-2010, 06:52 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
Ie if you exit a corner at say 3.5 or 4k rpm and floor it then .. you only get 1.2 or 1.4 just like previous GT2.. Quite notable difference in torque and very strange. P had never programmed a tt or GT2 like this. When asked if there is a problem, the factory just replied "nope, it's just the way we programmed the car!" Probably to protect the rods/ pistons.
12-18-2010, 04:52 AM
#36
"Edit" It even has 811nm of torque which is more than the GT2RS 680nm...
12-23-2010, 03:08 PM
#37
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eek... i haven't been back here in some time, and it turns out the video i took and posted seems to have started something (on the "rose jointed suspension" bit)
i'm of two minds on this matter.
1) i feel a bit miffed that he said those things in the vid. maybe i should have asked the question differently, saying "what is different about this car than the GT3RS"... it would have allowed him to be more... honest? precise? in his answer, than what i got. at the end of the day, he was talking to journalists (in my case, a part time one).
of course if you want to be black and white about it (and the price of the car seems to demand this,) then... it is what it is, and it is disappointing for sure.
having said that...
2) whatever the final configuration of the car is, the suspension IS different than the GT3RS, and Porsche do know a thing or two about suspension setups. i'm willing to bet that the 2RS as-is, even if not fully rose jointed as claimed, is a better setup than majority of fully rose-jointed cars out there, while at the same time being comfy.
that's what struck me most about the car when i drove it, over the power. it was how nice the ride was, given what it is capable of on track (in the right hands, certainly not mine).
So, long winded way of saying: Porsche, you lied and the car isn't specced exactly as you said (though remember, my video was not an official marketing video, and had i not posted it, this issue may never have arisen... maybe)... but WTF, the car blows everything out of the water on track, while being more comfy than the GT2 it replaces.
well, just my 2 cents.
carry on gents!
P.S. i haven't driven any of your cars, but while the 2RS i tried in Germany wasn't quite like a normally aspirated car... the throttle response really was excellent for a turbocharged car
i'm of two minds on this matter.
1) i feel a bit miffed that he said those things in the vid. maybe i should have asked the question differently, saying "what is different about this car than the GT3RS"... it would have allowed him to be more... honest? precise? in his answer, than what i got. at the end of the day, he was talking to journalists (in my case, a part time one).
of course if you want to be black and white about it (and the price of the car seems to demand this,) then... it is what it is, and it is disappointing for sure.
having said that...
2) whatever the final configuration of the car is, the suspension IS different than the GT3RS, and Porsche do know a thing or two about suspension setups. i'm willing to bet that the 2RS as-is, even if not fully rose jointed as claimed, is a better setup than majority of fully rose-jointed cars out there, while at the same time being comfy.
that's what struck me most about the car when i drove it, over the power. it was how nice the ride was, given what it is capable of on track (in the right hands, certainly not mine).
So, long winded way of saying: Porsche, you lied and the car isn't specced exactly as you said (though remember, my video was not an official marketing video, and had i not posted it, this issue may never have arisen... maybe)... but WTF, the car blows everything out of the water on track, while being more comfy than the GT2 it replaces.
well, just my 2 cents.
carry on gents!
P.S. i haven't driven any of your cars, but while the 2RS i tried in Germany wasn't quite like a normally aspirated car... the throttle response really was excellent for a turbocharged car
01-30-2011, 04:55 PM
#39
Response from Porsche:
"Here are the facts what has been done to the suspension:
The GT2 RS has lightweight helper springs on the rear suspension, the GT2 and the GT3 RS have not. The spring system is substantially lighter and very similar to the one of a race car using this layout. Spring rates are different too.
The front springs on the GT2 RS have 7 Turns, the ones on GT2 have 9 and therefore are heavier. The total weight saving alone on springs of the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 are more than 3 kgs. (The front springs on GT3 RS have 7 Turns as well and therefore are similar to the GT2 RSs)
The joints of the lower rear wishbone are unibal on the GT2 RS. The GT2and GT3 RS have conventional elasto kinematic joints.
The joints of the rear upper tie bars are unibal on the GT2 RS, the ones on GT2 and GT3 RS are conventional.
The joints where the damper is mounted to the rear wheel carrier are unibal as well (not on GT2 and GT3 RS).
The GT2 RSs rear wishbones are adjustable for a wider range of camber adjustability (same part as GT3 RSR)
The rear diagonal brace is made of lightweight aluminium. The ones of GT2 and GT3 RS are steel (weight saving 1,4 kgs).
The rear tyres are custom tailored for the GT2 RS and therefore have a very different spec than the ones used on GT3 RS and GT2 (same size but not interchangable!) So Porsche developed a complete new rear tyre for just 500 cars !
The hydraulic system of the dampers is different on the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 and GT3 RS (valving hardware). Damper settings compression/rebound is way different too.
All systems (Traction control, Stability control and PASM) were done from scratch on the GT2 RS and were calibrated to the significantly higher levels of torque and power.
The Nürburgring time of 7:18 was achieved on a 100% stock car with stock tyres, exactly set up as the car customers get (even the toe-in and camber values!).
It was driven by a Porsche test driver and no race professional! Maybe Walter would have been a little bit faster still, but he was at the Turbo S presentation at the time we had to do the hot laps with the finished GT2 RS....."
"Here are the facts what has been done to the suspension:
The GT2 RS has lightweight helper springs on the rear suspension, the GT2 and the GT3 RS have not. The spring system is substantially lighter and very similar to the one of a race car using this layout. Spring rates are different too.
The front springs on the GT2 RS have 7 Turns, the ones on GT2 have 9 and therefore are heavier. The total weight saving alone on springs of the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 are more than 3 kgs. (The front springs on GT3 RS have 7 Turns as well and therefore are similar to the GT2 RSs)
The joints of the lower rear wishbone are unibal on the GT2 RS. The GT2and GT3 RS have conventional elasto kinematic joints.
The joints of the rear upper tie bars are unibal on the GT2 RS, the ones on GT2 and GT3 RS are conventional.
The joints where the damper is mounted to the rear wheel carrier are unibal as well (not on GT2 and GT3 RS).
The GT2 RSs rear wishbones are adjustable for a wider range of camber adjustability (same part as GT3 RSR)
The rear diagonal brace is made of lightweight aluminium. The ones of GT2 and GT3 RS are steel (weight saving 1,4 kgs).
The rear tyres are custom tailored for the GT2 RS and therefore have a very different spec than the ones used on GT3 RS and GT2 (same size but not interchangable!) So Porsche developed a complete new rear tyre for just 500 cars !
The hydraulic system of the dampers is different on the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 and GT3 RS (valving hardware). Damper settings compression/rebound is way different too.
All systems (Traction control, Stability control and PASM) were done from scratch on the GT2 RS and were calibrated to the significantly higher levels of torque and power.
The Nürburgring time of 7:18 was achieved on a 100% stock car with stock tyres, exactly set up as the car customers get (even the toe-in and camber values!).
It was driven by a Porsche test driver and no race professional! Maybe Walter would have been a little bit faster still, but he was at the Turbo S presentation at the time we had to do the hot laps with the finished GT2 RS....."
01-30-2011, 05:23 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
Sounds like good news.
So do you know why these differences were not spelled out in the PET when you first consulted it?
BTW, can anyone please tell me what the acronym PET stands for
So do you know why these differences were not spelled out in the PET when you first consulted it?
BTW, can anyone please tell me what the acronym PET stands for
01-30-2011, 05:25 PM
#41
Response from Porsche:
"Here are the facts what has been done to the suspension:
The GT2 RS has lightweight helper springs on the rear suspension, the GT2 and the GT3 RS have not. The spring system is substantially lighter and very similar to the one of a race car using this layout. Spring rates are different too.
The front springs on the GT2 RS have 7 Turns, the ones on GT2 have 9 and therefore are heavier. The total weight saving alone on springs of the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 are more than 3 kgs. (The front springs on GT3 RS have 7 Turns as well and therefore are similar to the GT2 RSs)
The joints of the lower rear wishbone are unibal on the GT2 RS. The GT2and GT3 RS have conventional elasto kinematic joints.
The joints of the rear upper tie bars are unibal on the GT2 RS, the ones on GT2 and GT3 RS are conventional.
The joints where the damper is mounted to the rear wheel carrier are unibal as well (not on GT2 and GT3 RS).
The GT2 RSs rear wishbones are adjustable for a wider range of camber adjustability (same part as GT3 RSR)
The rear diagonal brace is made of lightweight aluminium. The ones of GT2 and GT3 RS are steel (weight saving 1,4 kgs).
The rear tyres are custom tailored for the GT2 RS and therefore have a very different spec than the ones used on GT3 RS and GT2 (same size but not interchangable!) So Porsche developed a complete new rear tyre for just 500 cars !
The hydraulic system of the dampers is different on the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 and GT3 RS (valving hardware). Damper settings compression/rebound is way different too.
All systems (Traction control, Stability control and PASM) were done from scratch on the GT2 RS and were calibrated to the significantly higher levels of torque and power.
The Nürburgring time of 7:18 was achieved on a 100% stock car with stock tyres, exactly set up as the car customers get (even the toe-in and camber values!).
It was driven by a Porsche test driver and no race professional! Maybe Walter would have been a little bit faster still, but he was at the Turbo S presentation at the time we had to do the hot laps with the finished GT2 RS....."
"Here are the facts what has been done to the suspension:
The GT2 RS has lightweight helper springs on the rear suspension, the GT2 and the GT3 RS have not. The spring system is substantially lighter and very similar to the one of a race car using this layout. Spring rates are different too.
The front springs on the GT2 RS have 7 Turns, the ones on GT2 have 9 and therefore are heavier. The total weight saving alone on springs of the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 are more than 3 kgs. (The front springs on GT3 RS have 7 Turns as well and therefore are similar to the GT2 RSs)
The joints of the lower rear wishbone are unibal on the GT2 RS. The GT2and GT3 RS have conventional elasto kinematic joints.
The joints of the rear upper tie bars are unibal on the GT2 RS, the ones on GT2 and GT3 RS are conventional.
The joints where the damper is mounted to the rear wheel carrier are unibal as well (not on GT2 and GT3 RS).
The GT2 RSs rear wishbones are adjustable for a wider range of camber adjustability (same part as GT3 RSR)
The rear diagonal brace is made of lightweight aluminium. The ones of GT2 and GT3 RS are steel (weight saving 1,4 kgs).
The rear tyres are custom tailored for the GT2 RS and therefore have a very different spec than the ones used on GT3 RS and GT2 (same size but not interchangable!) So Porsche developed a complete new rear tyre for just 500 cars !
The hydraulic system of the dampers is different on the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 and GT3 RS (valving hardware). Damper settings compression/rebound is way different too.
All systems (Traction control, Stability control and PASM) were done from scratch on the GT2 RS and were calibrated to the significantly higher levels of torque and power.
The Nürburgring time of 7:18 was achieved on a 100% stock car with stock tyres, exactly set up as the car customers get (even the toe-in and camber values!).
It was driven by a Porsche test driver and no race professional! Maybe Walter would have been a little bit faster still, but he was at the Turbo S presentation at the time we had to do the hot laps with the finished GT2 RS....."
Is it possible to order the shiny new GT2 RS bespoke Sport Cups? I'm guessing they made them more durable and less prone to over-heating (the weakness of the Sport Cup.) The rest of that stuff all sounds like incrementally better springs and dampers with the usual removable of compliance from toe and camber bushings. I guess the modest reduction in unsprung weight goes some way to offsetting the added mandatory weight of the chin lift.
Color me envious of you FKOTB playing with new toys this week.
01-30-2011, 05:34 PM
#42
At least good news that there's more to the GT2 RS than published by Porsche.
01-30-2011, 07:20 PM
#43
You're earning your HWFM CER salary.
Is it possible to order the shiny new GT2 RS bespoke Sport Cups? I'm guessing they made them more durable and less prone to over-heating (the weakness of the Sport Cup.) The rest of that stuff all sounds like incrementally better springs and dampers with the usual removable of compliance from toe and camber bushings.
Color me envious of you FKOTB playing with new toys this week.
Is it possible to order the shiny new GT2 RS bespoke Sport Cups? I'm guessing they made them more durable and less prone to over-heating (the weakness of the Sport Cup.) The rest of that stuff all sounds like incrementally better springs and dampers with the usual removable of compliance from toe and camber bushings.
Color me envious of you FKOTB playing with new toys this week.
I picked up a set of the new N2 2RS specific tires (only rears are N2, fronts are same as GT3RS and N1) from the TireRack warehouse in Sparks on Friday
So, yes! Buy what you can while you can. Supplies will surely not last long @620hp.They are pretty, and surprisingly light weight.
As if you don't have a garage full of fun toys...no need for envy from you. What is FKOTB?
01-30-2011, 07:23 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
"Here are the facts what has been done to the suspension:
The GT2 RS has lightweight helper springs on the rear suspension, the GT2 and the GT3 RS have not. The spring system is substantially lighter and very similar to the one of a race car using this layout. Spring rates are different too.
The front springs on the GT2 RS have 7 Turns, the ones on GT2 have 9 and therefore are heavier. The total weight saving alone on springs of the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 are more than 3 kgs. (The front springs on GT3 RS have 7 Turns as well and therefore are similar to the GT2 RSs)
The joints of the lower rear wishbone are unibal on the GT2 RS. The GT2and GT3 RS have conventional elasto kinematic joints.
The joints of the rear upper tie bars are unibal on the GT2 RS, the ones on GT2 and GT3 RS are conventional.
The joints where the damper is mounted to the rear wheel carrier are unibal as well (not on GT2 and GT3 RS).
The GT2 RSs rear wishbones are adjustable for a wider range of camber adjustability (same part as GT3 RSR)
The rear diagonal brace is made of lightweight aluminium. The ones of GT2 and GT3 RS are steel (weight saving 1,4 kgs).
The rear tyres are custom tailored for the GT2 RS and therefore have a very different spec than the ones used on GT3 RS and GT2 (same size but not interchangable!) So Porsche developed a complete new rear tyre for just 500 cars !
The hydraulic system of the dampers is different on the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 and GT3 RS (valving hardware). Damper settings compression/rebound is way different too.
All systems (Traction control, Stability control and PASM) were done from scratch on the GT2 RS and were calibrated to the significantly higher levels of torque and power.
The Nürburgring time of 7:18 was achieved on a 100% stock car with stock tyres, exactly set up as the car customers get (even the toe-in and camber values!).
It was driven by a Porsche test driver and no race professional! Maybe Walter would have been a little bit faster still, but he was at the Turbo S presentation at the time we had to do the hot laps with the finished GT2 RS....."
The GT2 RS has lightweight helper springs on the rear suspension, the GT2 and the GT3 RS have not. The spring system is substantially lighter and very similar to the one of a race car using this layout. Spring rates are different too.
The front springs on the GT2 RS have 7 Turns, the ones on GT2 have 9 and therefore are heavier. The total weight saving alone on springs of the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 are more than 3 kgs. (The front springs on GT3 RS have 7 Turns as well and therefore are similar to the GT2 RSs)
The joints of the lower rear wishbone are unibal on the GT2 RS. The GT2and GT3 RS have conventional elasto kinematic joints.
The joints of the rear upper tie bars are unibal on the GT2 RS, the ones on GT2 and GT3 RS are conventional.
The joints where the damper is mounted to the rear wheel carrier are unibal as well (not on GT2 and GT3 RS).
The GT2 RSs rear wishbones are adjustable for a wider range of camber adjustability (same part as GT3 RSR)
The rear diagonal brace is made of lightweight aluminium. The ones of GT2 and GT3 RS are steel (weight saving 1,4 kgs).
The rear tyres are custom tailored for the GT2 RS and therefore have a very different spec than the ones used on GT3 RS and GT2 (same size but not interchangable!) So Porsche developed a complete new rear tyre for just 500 cars !
The hydraulic system of the dampers is different on the GT2 RS in comparison to the GT2 and GT3 RS (valving hardware). Damper settings compression/rebound is way different too.
All systems (Traction control, Stability control and PASM) were done from scratch on the GT2 RS and were calibrated to the significantly higher levels of torque and power.
The Nürburgring time of 7:18 was achieved on a 100% stock car with stock tyres, exactly set up as the car customers get (even the toe-in and camber values!).
It was driven by a Porsche test driver and no race professional! Maybe Walter would have been a little bit faster still, but he was at the Turbo S presentation at the time we had to do the hot laps with the finished GT2 RS....."
I assume all that stuff will bolt right into an GT3RS...
Maybe the GT3RS LE will really be a GT2RS with the Turbo delete option and a 4.0 instead of the 3.6? :-)
They are pretty, and surprisingly light weight.
01-30-2011, 08:00 PM
#45
Nordschleife Master
