Larry Cable

yeah good point ... although such buyers (in the EU at least) would get nailed for 4% import duty and also 19% VAT/GST upon import. (unless you reside overseas at the time of purchase (for 2 years I think), and you have owned the vehicle for a min of 6 months prior to import)

Actually when you import into the EU (permanently) as a personal import you are not premitted to resell the car for at least a year.

Not sure about elsewhere ...

cfjan

That's an interesting point.. I guess if you are trying to sell the car there, you'd have to convert to Euro spec. Hopefully it is not difficult for someone who just wants to drive there for a month or so.

This is unlikely to happen (unless I take a break from my job.. !) but am just interested in finding out more.. who knows, maybe I will change job one of these days.. and can use the opportunity to do a Euro trip.. !

cfjan

Thanks for the info, Larry.. ! That's very helpful.. !!

dcottam

$10-15K is obscenely expensive for a 20' container. I imported a car from the UK (admittedly 10 years ago) in a dedicated 20' container and paid well under $2K. Ocean freight rates fluctuate and vary based on what is in the container and whether import to or export from the USA, but today for foodstuffs to NY I am paying around $1500 from Europe, $2800 from India and $3100 from Vietnam. I cannot remember the name of the shipping company I used (but could probably track them down), but they were recommended by a London Classic Car Dealer and I had no problems with them.

My total cost including trucking the car from the dealer to the port in the UK, ocean freight, customs fees in the US (but NOT the 2.5% duty) and trucking to the unloading point in NY was well under $3000. It may not be possible to do it that cheaply today, but shopping around should get closer to that then $10K

911SLOW

Dont worry mate, nobody wants to buy a car from you anyway after they see how you treat them in the EMPTY ring.

John

carrering

Glad some of you are interested in coming out. It would be great if we could have our own group at next years school. Rent or ship your car. Either way you will have the time of your life. The best part of the school was the people. Take 14 strangers and make them learn the green hell together and you become quite close very quickly. By the end of the first day, you already trust these people enough to drive at very high speeds all around you on a track that is literally a maze of complex high speed corners in a forest. Hope to see some of you out here. Let me know, I'll be the first to buy a round of beers after the first day.

Tacet-Conundrum

This is true. I knew a Swede who lived in the states with a BMW 3 Series car. He moved back and had to convert the front of his car to the Euro model with headlight washers. Cost him a couple of grand.

cfjan

Yeah, a friend who's moving back to Germany ended up selling his Cayenne S here in US (he bought it while working in US), as it would require a bit of $$$ to convert everything to Euro spec..

911Jetta

My good friend has done it, and fortunately for us he also tells a good story about it. Feel free to contact him if you are serious about this, he's a true Euro adventure enthusiast. One of the best guys I've ever met! You'll see all of that in his awesome thread...get ready for a good read!

The thread can found over at Pelican Parts:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...l?referrerid=0

Some nuts and bolts from the thread:

A lot of people think that getting your ride to Europe is expensive and complicated, but is actually quite reasonable and straightforward, but there are a few hoops you have to jump through. I'll go through the steps i took, which i sort of built on from my experiences with shipping motorcycles over there for touring excursions over the last several years.

First, find a good and reliable shipping line, preferably one that services a port near where you live, as this will allow you to simply drive your car there and they 'roll it on' This will allow you to save money from having to have the car shipped to the port, if you can cajole a friend into following you there to drive back. I use the port of Charleston, SC, which is an easy 3 hour drive, and simply rent a one way car rental home. The shipping company which i use has been dead reliable in the past, and is Wallenius-Wilhelmsen out of Sweden/Norway http://www.2wglobal.com/www/WEP/index.jsp They ship from numerous east and west coast ports to just about anywhere in the world, and handle most of BMW's shipping from the US to Europe. They are very professional and efficient, and have a great tracking system which is realtime, to see if there are any delays en route.

Unfortunately, unless you have a special shipping license, or permit or something which i do not have, you have to go through a shipping 'broker'
While they charge a fee for their services, it is worth it, as they handle all of the paperwork required, including customs documents, the bill of Lading, and working directly with the shipping company. Again, find a shipping broker that you feel comfortable with, and whose fee is not too exhorbitatant. I use the John S. James company http://johnsjames.com/ who have been in biz in the south for over 60 years.

The shipping company will get you to fill out a POA (power of attorney) form to allow them to act on your behalf to fill out customs paperwork, and will then generate a shipping quote, which cannot be done until 30 days prior to the shipping departure date. Also, you must send them copies of the title of the car, you drivers license and passport, and registration. On the day the car is to be shipped, you will need to give the broker the original title to show to customs.

Important: In years past, individuals only needed to put down a Social security number. Either due to 9/11 or the IRS, the government is more closely tracking shipments, so you will need to apply for an EIN, or Employer identification number that must be listed on your shipping records. This rule litteraly came into effect as i was getting ready to put my car on the boat (August)! Luckily, i already had an EIN from my business, and was able to use this, otherwise i might have been screwed as it takes may take some time to obtain an EIN from the IRS. Make sure you apply for this wayy in advance so that you dont get surprised.

The cost of shipping will be determined by the dimensions of your car and the weight. Sorry to inform you guys with super-light, sub 2000 lb Carbon-fiber,etc go-karts, the weight is less important than the dimensions, so all 911's will cost about the same. No discount for less weight!

Most shipping companies require you to get your car to the port one week prior to sailing, to clear customs, etc.

From the east cost, the average time to get to most European ports is 10-14 days. Keep in mind that, like the bus, ships stop at multiple ports to divest cargo, and that your port may be at the end or beginning, so check the schedule carefully. Also, keep in mind that ships are subject to delays of weather, etc, so the day they are due to arrive may be 2-3 days later than scheduled, so plan your trip accordingly. I got 'stuck' in Paris for a week waiting for my motorcycle to arrive in Europe two years ago when a storm delayed the boat. I lost a week of my trip, but if i had been anywhere else, it would have been a bummer.

Important: When u drop your car off, remove the license plate!! For some reason, US plates are in demand in Europe as souvenirs or something, and a lot will 'disappear' from your car by the time it get to europe (ask me how i know) The plate will not be needed while the car is en route

What can you keep in the car when it's being shipped? Not much. the gas tank must be no more than 1/4 tank, and only the stuff which the car came with (jack, spare tire, air compressor, etc) is allowed. U will not be allowed to keep fluids (oil, brake fluid), spare parts, or anything else, nor would you want to, as sticky fingers could get them while en route. (i did put the 'smugglers box' to it's named use by stuffing in a spare oil filter, plugs, fuses and relays tho!!). i removed the face plate to my stereo, and left a fire extinguisher under the drivers seat, which the customs guy said was ok.

Also, as i am ****, i taped a message on the dash of the car addressed to whoever would have to more the car, letting them know to let the car warm up a minute or two prior to driving, a sticky drivers side pull door strap, etc as nuances of the car just to inform.

That's pretty much it. On the day your car is to be shipped, simply drive to the port (dont forget to take a copy of your original title), stop by the broker office to pick up the customs paperwork, and then drive to the port. A customs guy will the check your paperwork, and then look over the car (perfunctorily in my case, he was very cool) and that's it.

You get the official bill of lading and your original title back in the mail several day later from the shipping company, which will be needed in order to pick the car up in Europe.

The shipping company maintains an office in each port which will assist you in picking your car up. However, you must go through the customs office in each port in order to actually pick up the car, and while the EU has streamlined regulations, each country maintains slightly different rules for picking up a US registrered vehicle. (Keep in mind that everything that i am talking about applies to civilians... you guys in the military have everything handed to you on a silver platter when shipping the car and picking it up)

Standard items required for picking the car up include a port 'fee' and taxes of around Euro 150-200 (cash) that is paid directly to the customs office when u arrive. You must also present the bill of lading and ORIGINAL copy of the title.
Note:One of the small differences that i found out exists, occurs in Germany. I was originally planning to pick my car up in Bremerhaven, Germany. However, i found out that in order to pick your car up, German customs requires you to deposit an amount in cash equal to the 1/3 the value of the car as 'collateral' that will be returned to you when you ship the car back out of the country!!!!!!! This means that if you plan to ship out of another port, you have to go through probably a mountain of paperwork to get this considerable amount of $$$$ back. Furthermore, as i had an older car not listed in the blue book they use to determine 'value' there was no telling how the German customs Gestapo could screw u for. Needless to say, i bailed on entering through Germany, and opted for Antwerp, as Belgium (thus far) has no such regulation. The lesson learned here, is that when u decide on where u want to ship your car, demand to know in advance what you will have to actually do in order to get your car. As they say, the devil is in the details.

Finally, you have to show your Insurance 'Green Card', which brings us to the main thing required to drive your car in Europe - Insurance valid in Europe.

Most people dont realize that you can easily and legally drive your US registered car in Europe. EU laws allow you to drive you US registered car for up to six months as a tourist, as long as you have European insurance. European insurance can easily be obtained from several US insurance agents - as long as you have a good driving record, which means not more than one speeding ticket or violation in three years (!) While i haven't had an accident since college, i have had two speeding violations over the last couple of years, which made me 'high risk' for most US insurance companies. Some companies will make you have your car inspected by a mechanic and 'certified' ok as it is an older car. Geico is one of the major companies which will write European policies for their US customers. However, even though i have been a Geico cusotmer for over 15 years without an accident, they wouldn't write me a policy because of these two tickets on my record!!!! (Usual a-hole US company that doesn't give a *&it about customer relations, only about it's bottom line - pissed me off so much, I have new insurance company now) Anyway, i checked with several other companies before i found one that would write a policy for a 'high risk'(LOL) client like me. BTW, regardless of my record, many US companies would not write a policy because i was shipping a 'Porsche' , categorized as a 'sports vehilce' LOL. I could have more easily have gotten a policy with a 300 hp turbo mitsubishi or subaru I was finally able to get a policy with Clements International http://www.clements.com/ by talking with a rep and explaining my situation. Very professional. I understand that it is also possible to obtain insurance once you are in the country, but keep in mind that you cannot get your car off the dock until the insurance is obtained. I was not comfortable with the prospect of being gouged by some local insurance guy at the dock.

Note: Keep in mind that if your car is older than 5 years, you may have trouble getting liability.

The take home message here, is do your insurance homework early, as you may have to contact several companies before you find one.

And, that's about it. I'll keep you posted on the pick up next week.

Hope this info was informative for you guys thinking of doing the same.

carrering

Here is a lap with me driving and Larry coaching from passenger seat. This is at the end of the last day of the school and my 49th complete lap so far over the past 4 years. I started the school with 30 laps. Finished with 50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUlOfL_X6c

Carrera GT

This thread is full of surprises! Great video!

Who'd have thought Larry could instruct on the line of the Nurburgring?!

I doff my cap to you, sir!

carrering

cooking up another as we speak. again larry driving the RS…pretty fooking awesome
going to take 2 hours from now. DSL is fooking slow.

Nine9Sixer

well, i guess we have a year to plan next year's DE, including getting favorable volume shipping charges!

carrering

I think we should organize a track fest. nurburgring would be center focus of course, but we could also get SPA on there as well as a special group training day in Leipzig with PDS. If Jochen can pull the right strings, maybe we could even get a day out at Weisach test track. Mix in a tour of Weisach and Stuttgart and you have a hellova trip we could do in a span of 2 weeks easily. Throw in a side trip down to either Italy, Monaco, or France, and may even be able to trick significant others to come along.

carrering

As promised Sir Larry at it again, but in instructor mode. He gives some pointers while driving and gets progressively faster. By the end I was squeezing very tightly to the door handle. He is flat out flying for most of the lap. Some little mistakes but manages like a pro at the speed he is traveling. Rain be damned! Very fun ride. unfookingly unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFGWQRUcOTI