MAB Badgerbimmer

I would like to pose a question to you all.

First, background, do to physical limitations I am unable to use a traditional manual transmission. When the M3 came out with SMG it was great. Thus I currently use a highly modified M3 on the track - suspension, brakes, engine. The M3 is an excellent track car in my configuration. I was never interested in a Porsche with a Tip, because, well, its an automatic. I am well familiar with the DSG transmission as I us an A3 3.2 with DSG as my daily driver.

As you all know the face lifted 997 is out with PDK. Porsche is now a viable option. Consequently I will be acquiring one. The question I have is which one? A Carrera S or a GT3 when they come out. Both cars will be used the same way, track and weekends when I feel like having a bit of fun.The big question is what makes the better track car, a modded Carrera S or a non-modded GT3? If it is a modded Carrera S what needs to be done?

I would like to thank you in advance for your thoughts.

GrantG

GT3 makes a far better track car due to the race-bred dry-sump engine.

C.J. Ichiban

+1 the GT3 is better out of the box with no new parts and just an alignment then a C2S. by the time you get a 997S with a few options, suspension, tires, brake stuff, etc you're almost at the same price as a gt3 anyway.

if the gt3 has pdk- it should be awesome for you and some of the other RL'ers who can't do the full manual trans.

am722

Also, you didn't mention it as a concern but a near-stock GT3 will hold its value much better than a track-modded C2S.

todinlaw

+1 on the GT3 and the 8,400 red line.

MAB Badgerbimmer

If my experience with the SMG M3 is indicative you will be delighted with the PDK. SMG on a track is great and is much more enjoyable than my prior track car, an M3 with an auto tranny (now my 17 year old daughters daily driver).

Based on my A3 experience DSG is significantly smoother than SMG (although it weighs a lot more, SMG adds only 16lbs to an M3) so it should work well on a track. Hard shifting an SMG M3 without upsetting the car balance requires experience but once mastered isn't a problem. DSG will be a no brainer, which, depending on how you look at it, can be good or bad.

Once I acquire the Porsche the remaining decision will be what to do with the M3, summer daily driver (pull rollbar, track seat, six points etc, etc) or alternative track car depending on how the mood strikes.

VERBOTN

Mike you kick @ss, however you are missing an obvious solution: RSR with sequential shift, not a DD but it is a heck of a track car.......

Kidding aside currently the tip is the choice in P-car hopefully advances in both medical and technical will avail a better choice.

Carrera GT

I think the key points have been noted -- resale value on a GT3 will be a higher percentage and probably a lower dollar amount. The initial extra capital outlay and higher insurance will add to the cost of the GT3, but if you're in the market for a GT3, I think these dollars are below the pain threshold.

If you want a car sooner (say six months to a year sooner) if you're not already on a GT3 wait list, expect to wait a long time past the first Carrera S with sport suspension and PDK. And I hear many dealers are moving to a gouge (I mean "market") price on the GT3 and RS for first time customers.

If you get a Carrera S with sports suspension and PDK, then upgrade the brakes and suspension, well, I've helped people do that with 997's and it's not as cheap as you might like, plus you never get the feel of the GT3 exactly, you just get a nice not rod Carrera. NTTAWWT. . It seems the power kit for the DI is not offered yet, which is to be expected. And you'd never get the same 8400 rpm "up on high doe" of the GT3 engine (which is surely one of its most valuable capabilities when on the track.)

By the way, there are after-market products that add robotic shift to 911's which you could move from car to car as you buy and sell. I'd like to think there's some sort of medical funding assistance to help people with this kind of stuff, but once you're talking about modifying expensive cars for indulgences, I have to imagine the bean counters are slow to reach for their calculators.

roberga

the GT3 will be a couple of years behind the other cars for the PDK.

Carrera GT

I've seen you're often on the money with your information and I have no "official" word other than the DI GT3 engine arriving +30 HP in '09 as a '10 model year. I imagine most dealers already have names and wait lists and some are taking deposits regardless of no facts let alone prices. I imagine it won't be like the 997 roll out where the GT3 lagged the early '05 cars by two years and even then arrived months later than anticipated amid some brouhaha over a sunroof option if I remember correctly. : )

I'd like to think Porsche will soon have the PDK sorted for the GT cars. I don't see much point in ordering the "new" car just for the power of the DI engine -- not to mention the price increases and weak dollar and shakey economy and election cycle antics of the government. [sidebar:Is everyone already anticipating Bush will turn up the fear factor so McCain gets the voter thinking about war instead of economics? Note the timing of 9/11 trials just in time for the election. Groan.]

So it will mostly be people who've been "missing out" on the 997 GT3 Mk I finally getting one to drive after waiting out the price gouging. Plus the usual flippers taking cars to eBay of course.

OldGuy

Sidebar
no they wont turn up the war publicity machine. They wont have to.
The McCain camp is already leaking Osama Obama is the second coming of Democratic Spend-tax inflation copy of Jimmy Carter. That will be enough to scare most voters who care about not having 70% income taxes and double digit inflation. As soon as people realize he has no economic solutions (did you hear his High Oil price solution today??? Wind fall profit taxes on Big Oil. OH YEA that will work!!!!) they will realize he is a VERY leftist liberal with NO political experience and no foreign policy experience. He really is a sham and the media has fell in love with him to shameful levels.

Now back to topic. I hope Porsche comes out with the PDK quickly for these guys who need it.
Mike I would wait for the GT3 PDK.

BUT will the GT3 have a Dry sump motor then? If Porsche takes away the GT1 based motor for the Twin Turbo will
the complete the loop with depriving the GT cars of the dry sump motor??

///Mous3

DataX tracked M3E46 extensively... then he moved to 996 GT3 a year ago... I believe he will *never* track another BMW again. End of story.

340Elise

Yup, go with the GT3. And btw, I am really happy that Porsche is coming out with the PDK as an option now for you and others in your sam situation. Some have been complaining about the PDK and they think it will take over the manual tranny. I do not think that is the case at all; and your situation alone is reason enough for Porshe to bring out the PDK, even if you were the only enthusiast in the world who cannot drive a traditional manual. I am very happy for you that you now get to move up to the new 911's; you will love them! There is nothing wrong with BMW's, they build excellent cars, but just wait until you start playing with your new Porsche on the track, and then modify it to suit your individual style of driving.

Unfortunately, I did read that the PDK will not be coming out in the next GT3's; at least not right away. So you may just want to go with a new C2S; maybe one with the X51 if they offer that in the '09 models (you would have about the same hp as the current GT3 if they have the X51 option). Then all you have to do is some suspension upgrades (you can order the C2S with the PCCB's I would guess), maybe get some dedicated track wheels and tires, and you should be good to go! GMG Racing (one of our sponsors) is a good source for suspension components.

I'm guessing that a base C2S will come in at about $85K, and it comes with Bi-Xenons and the PASM suspension, which really is not bad at all, and has gotten better and better each year since its first introduction in 2004 in the first 997 models. Then you add the PCCB's for almost $9k and maybe the X51 for about $16K and you are looking at $110K for a car that will have about the same horsepower as the current GT3, but with more low and midrange torque due to the larger displacement. With some minor suspension upgrades, it really should fare well against the current GT3. You will also be able to get those awesome new GT2 folding carbon race buckets for a small fee. However, I do not know how much the PDK will come in at; I will guess $4.5K.

Enjoy ordering your next Porsche; you won't be dissapointed with either the C2S and certainly not the next GT3.

Stephen

iLLM3

Ehh I wouldn't sell the M3 short... After all of the car's I have had, M3 through MANY different stages from stock to stripped, it is still FANTASTIC and one of my favorite car's ever...

BUT, if you have the means for a GT3 there is no comparison ..

GT3 it is

MAB Badgerbimmer

Thanks for all the input! My dealer told me the new pricing for the base C2S was up only $2.5k or so, the remaining pricing sheets to come out Friday. He is "hopeful" and is anticipating that PDK will be offered on the GT3 in spring when it is reintroduced. However he is the first to admit that Porsche holds things close to the vest and doesn't share much with the dealer group.