New GT2-pass
11-02-2007, 02:39 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
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Per a very reliable source, PCNA no longer cares about dealer "mark-ups" because the cars are being flipped by the customers for the same ridiculous prices on ebay. Understandably, they would rather the dealers make the profit rather than speculators who are going to kill the market as they did with the CGT and previous GT2. According to my source, Porsche is limiting their production numbers for the 911 series and even more so for the GT cars in the U.S. This is primarily due to the foreign emerging markets as well as the declining dollar. As a matter of fact, Dubai has now surpassed Champion as their highest volume dealer.
Of course like anything else, there will be a good news and bad news scenario with this development. The good news is that this will keep the values more stable like the old days (pre-996 models) but the bad news is that it means more mark ups on harder to get cars.
I am sure that many of the more reputable dealers are going to stay loyal to their VIP customers who are not into the flipping business. My dealer, whom I have purchased many cars from, is giving me their first GT2 at MSRP.
Best,
Amir
Of course like anything else, there will be a good news and bad news scenario with this development. The good news is that this will keep the values more stable like the old days (pre-996 models) but the bad news is that it means more mark ups on harder to get cars.
I am sure that many of the more reputable dealers are going to stay loyal to their VIP customers who are not into the flipping business. My dealer, whom I have purchased many cars from, is giving me their first GT2 at MSRP.
Best,
Amir
Bad dealers but never a bad customer , lol, do you include your buddy Terrance in that elusive speculator class "who kill the market" or do you give this flipper of all flippers a godly pass ?
11-02-2007, 02:28 PM
#32
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was actually defending the dealers by saying that they have the right to make the profits over speculators. They are in the business of selling cars afterall.
That being said, I don't think its right to put everybody in the same boat. If a customer has been loyal and purchased cars in the past without flipping them right off of the showroom floor for massive profits, then they should be dealt with differently.
And for the record, I still own my RS and couldn't be happier with it. I also plan on keeping my GT2 as I have my CGT for over three years now as well.
As for my buddy Terrence, I don't find anything wrong with him driving his cars for a few thousand miles and selling them before they plummet ( Personally, I wish I was smart enough to do the same). I regard a "flipper", as someone who sells the car without even driving them.
Best,
Amir
That being said, I don't think its right to put everybody in the same boat. If a customer has been loyal and purchased cars in the past without flipping them right off of the showroom floor for massive profits, then they should be dealt with differently.
And for the record, I still own my RS and couldn't be happier with it. I also plan on keeping my GT2 as I have my CGT for over three years now as well.
As for my buddy Terrence, I don't find anything wrong with him driving his cars for a few thousand miles and selling them before they plummet ( Personally, I wish I was smart enough to do the same). I regard a "flipper", as someone who sells the car without even driving them.
Best,
Amir
11-02-2007, 04:54 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Free Market Pricing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My local dealer just called to tell me that their incoming GT2 will sell at market(msrp+50k). As a repeat customer, I was offered msrp +$45k. I had the number one spot, but will be passing since they indicated msrp at the time of deposit 18months ago. Just a head's up for those interested. Clowns.
__________________
My local dealer just called to tell me that their incoming GT2 will sell at market(msrp+50k). As a repeat customer, I was offered msrp +$45k. I had the number one spot, but will be passing since they indicated msrp at the time of deposit 18months ago. Just a head's up for those interested. Clowns.
__________________
And shame on Porsche for setting any MSRP that creates a gap in the supply / demand curve as they've done with the CGT (price too high) and GT3RS (price too low).
dave
11-02-2007, 05:18 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Second, CGTs were in fact trading OVER sticker when they were first released. They began to depreciate after they had been on the market for a little while. The issue there wasn't so much the car's MSRP but rather its relatively high production numbers.
11-02-2007, 05:19 PM
#35
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new 2
That would not work as the profit margins on the car would just go to Porsche as opposed to the greedy stealer. Also, it would not preclude the stealer from continuing to add their market adjustment if they could get away with it. Stealers using this strategy are catering to the "gotta have it first and will pay any mark-up group".
11-02-2007, 06:14 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Huh? I don't follow. I am 100% free market and think the dealerships should sell their product at whatever price the market will support. I was just wondering whether the limited production could have justified a higher MSRP. That would have reduced the 'market adjustment' and would also cut down on the "I'd never pay more than MSRP" and "find a new dealer" posts.
Which tells me that the MSRP was too high for the volume.
11-02-2007, 06:23 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Porsche and Market Adjustments
And what's wrong with that? Anyway, I can't agree since we have not discussed what price the dealer paid to Porsche. What if it's unchanged from the current? This would give the dealer the same margin as if it was sold with today's market adjustment.
11-02-2007, 06:46 PM
#38
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Thread Starter
new 2
"This would give the dealer the same margin as if it was sold with today's market adjustment."
Even if the Porsche charged the dealer the same price with a higher MSRP, it would not preclude the dealer from still adding another mark-up if they thought they could get it. Point is that some dealers are testing the market price points at the expense of loyal, repeat customers that made commitments (accepted by the dealers) to buy at msrp well in advance. As one of those customers that was affected, I'm expressing my displeasure and putting the dealer on notice that they've lost business going forward.
Even if the Porsche charged the dealer the same price with a higher MSRP, it would not preclude the dealer from still adding another mark-up if they thought they could get it. Point is that some dealers are testing the market price points at the expense of loyal, repeat customers that made commitments (accepted by the dealers) to buy at msrp well in advance. As one of those customers that was affected, I'm expressing my displeasure and putting the dealer on notice that they've lost business going forward.
11-02-2007, 07:18 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Point is that some dealers are testing the market price points at the expense of loyal, repeat customers that made commitments (accepted by the dealers) to buy at msrp well in advance. As one of those customers that was affected, I'm expressing my displeasure and putting the dealer on notice that they've lost business going forward.
Speaking hypothetically, would you have bought the car if the MSPR was $50K higher and your dealer offered the car at MSRP?
11-02-2007, 07:20 PM
#40
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Congrats Amir. It appears you were better positioned than I. I wonder how many cars purchased from the dealer would have elevated my status? 3 in the last 3 years was obviously not enough. Given this experience, I likely will not position myself to play their game in the future.
Best,
Amir
11-02-2007, 07:34 PM
#41
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Thread Starter
new 2
"Speaking hypothetically, would you have bought the car if the MSPR was $50K higher and your dealer offered the car at MSRP?"
The answer is no as I think the car is priced at my personal value limit at it's current msrp. $250k+ would push me to consider stepping up to CGT's or more likely, stay with my current modded GT2 or something of similar overall performance within the same range. Who knows what the future will bring but I'll have one less dealer to consider.
The answer is no as I think the car is priced at my personal value limit at it's current msrp. $250k+ would push me to consider stepping up to CGT's or more likely, stay with my current modded GT2 or something of similar overall performance within the same range. Who knows what the future will bring but I'll have one less dealer to consider.
11-02-2007, 07:45 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
One last thought. Porsche could have generated a ton of good will if they had given buyers of the last gen GT2 first crack at the new one (at MSRP, natch). It would also have weeded out the flippers. And doesn't Ferrari follow such practices to great success for their new cars?
11-02-2007, 08:16 PM
#43
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Thread Starter
new 2
Frankly, my hope was that I would buy at msrp and that Porsche would keep production appropriately small in order to avoid the depreciation disaster of the previous GT2. You are right, they should have given previous owners the first shot at msrp. Regarding the previous GT2, they only shipped approx 300 cars last time and values still dropped (though market dynamics at the time were quite a bit different) .
11-02-2007, 08:47 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
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Per a very reliable source, PCNA no longer cares about dealer "mark-ups" because the cars are being flipped by the customers for the same ridiculous prices on ebay. Understandably, they would rather the dealers make the profit rather than speculators who are going to kill the market as they did with the CGT and previous GT2. According to my source, Porsche is limiting their production numbers for the 911 series and even more so for the GT cars in the U.S. This is primarily due to the foreign emerging markets as well as the declining dollar. As a matter of fact, Dubai has now surpassed Champion as their highest volume dealer.
Of course like anything else, there will be a good news and bad news scenario with this development. The good news is that this will keep the values more stable like the old days (pre-996 models) but the bad news is that it means more mark ups on harder to get cars.
I am sure that many of the more reputable dealers are going to stay loyal to their VIP customers who are not into the flipping business. My dealer, whom I have purchased many cars from, is giving me their first GT2 at MSRP.
Best,
Amir
Of course like anything else, there will be a good news and bad news scenario with this development. The good news is that this will keep the values more stable like the old days (pre-996 models) but the bad news is that it means more mark ups on harder to get cars.
I am sure that many of the more reputable dealers are going to stay loyal to their VIP customers who are not into the flipping business. My dealer, whom I have purchased many cars from, is giving me their first GT2 at MSRP.
Best,
Amir
11-02-2007, 08:58 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Consider this.
The dealer probably made $10-12,000 per car on the previous three cars you ordered. If some doofus walks in and buys the GT2 for $100,000 over MSRP the dealer profit would around $120,000 (100,000 markup+ about 20,000 profit).
Many of us say the dealer will lose our business. The dealer could care less. With the mass production of the base 911's, the dealer has all the customer's he/she needs. The person that paid $100,000 over is the better customer to have.
I guess this is a long way of saying if you owned the dealership, you would do the same thing. Now you see why you are toast?
The dealer probably made $10-12,000 per car on the previous three cars you ordered. If some doofus walks in and buys the GT2 for $100,000 over MSRP the dealer profit would around $120,000 (100,000 markup+ about 20,000 profit).
Many of us say the dealer will lose our business. The dealer could care less. With the mass production of the base 911's, the dealer has all the customer's he/she needs. The person that paid $100,000 over is the better customer to have.
I guess this is a long way of saying if you owned the dealership, you would do the same thing. Now you see why you are toast?