GrantG

Probably not unless you get PCCB. Don't forget tires too. The Turbo will eat them VERY quickly...

frayed

That would require me to have a car on order. For now, I'll have to suffer in my E36. Hehehe.

gete3

Heavy cars like the Turbo do not take kindly to prolonged track use. The GT3 will Stay The Course!

Sun Ra

GRANT, ET AL....

are those tyres available for the 997 TT??????

NJ-GT

The Michelin Pilot Sport Cups used on the new 997 GT3 / GT3 RS (235/35R19 and 305/30R19) fit every single 997 with 19" stock wheels, including the 997 Carrera narrow body, 997 Carrera wide body, and 997 Turbo.

Personally, I would like to try them, but the front tire is too narrow for my 19"x10" front wheel. My biggest pain with MPSC was their grip on wet conditions, so a little less grip in dry conditions, with more grip in wet conditions, can easily match what I like so much about the Toyo RA-1.

If I need to go really fast, then I can run slicks or Hoosiers DOT-R depending on the competition rules.

RSA333

Folks-

I agree that the GT3 woud be more fun to drive, and will make a better track car. However, in the article (wife is Italian) the GT3 was described as running on "semi-slick" trires (are these the new Pilot Sport Cups on the GT3?), whereas the turbo was on 'street' tires.

There is no difference in braking distance between the PCCB or the steel brakes, according to Porsche. The PCCB's apparently fade less under hard track braking than steel, but they work more poorly under damp conditions on startup, are more fragile to breakage, and rotor replacement is costly. Walter Rohrl prefers the steel brakes, and apparently almost all of the 911 race cars use steel, unless otherwise mandated.

Just my $0.02.

-Gerry

PogueMoHone

Actually according to Porsche the ceramics offer the following advantages

Faster response
Very high fading stability thanks to consistent friction values
High safety reserves under high levels of stress
Approx 50% lighter
Absolutely rust-proof brake discs

The improvement in the GT3 over previous models concern changes the shape of the inner cooling ducts for better ventilation with greater brake cooling and rigidity, as well as the material composition with increased abrasion resisitance..

Over the 996 GT3 the size of the front discs have been increased from 350 to 380mm.

RSA333

Colm-

You did not negate anything I said. Porsche has said that both PCCB and steel brakes have the same stopping distance. Of course, Porsche would want us to buy the PCCBs at $8K - talk to folks who got the first generation of PCCBs on their 911s. The problems with PCCB is that:

(1) Brake fade is greater with PCCB under damp start-up conditions.
(2) PCCB rotors are more fragile to breakage when changing wheels (like at the track).
(3) Replacement costs are much greater for PCCBs than steel rotors.

I am a track junkie, and have never had problems with brake fade using steel brakes, even under professional racing conditions, or during long Driver's Ed events.

Thanks - Gerry
----------------------
2007 997 Turbo - Jan Build
2005 911 GT3
2002 996TTX50 - gone and sorely missed
1995 993 GT2 - driver, IMSA (not owned)
1993 RSA
1992 911 Turbo S2 (Supercar series, died)
1980 SC - best car ever made

from: "Materials and Manufacturing Directorate Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL

Ceramic Brake Disks:

Air Force researchers, in projects at the Air Force Research Laboratory Materials and Manufacturing Directorate (AFRL/ML), have developed materials for aircraft brakes that are used for high performance automobile brakes such as the Porsche Turbo.

While there are no specific problems with the currently used C/C (Ceramic Composite Brake) material for aircraft brakes, this material is expensive and has a variable friction coefficient, leading to “morning sickness” (low friction coefficient with a cold, damp brake) and brake fade under rejected takeoff conditions...

PogueMoHone

No, I clarified it,

I had first generation ceramics on my car, and never a problem; by the way I talk to myself all the time, and I bought them a second time..

On your points however, Brake fade only happens over repeated usuage, and repeated usage dries out the brakes, so damp brake fade upon start up is a myth and no different from wet steel brakes in my experiences.

RSA333

Colm-

So your logic has more meaning than those who originally developed the PCCB brakes? Not trying to be a jerk - but that just does not make sense.

Thanks - Gerry (2 Ph.Ds. 1 M.D, 2 M.S.)

PogueMoHone

You should have quit when you were ahead!

See my signature below!!!!

whakiewes

Since it seems a **** fight has started, I will change it up a bit -

Is the PCCB worth $8k? If it was a $2k option, then I would ultimately always say yes, but at what $15k for two new rotors, plus the original $8k, what are the benefits? Further, has anyone ever achieved fade on GT3/TT steel brakes? I am running GT3/TT setup on my 968 currently, and under the most abuse I can give it, I have seen no ill effects. My car weighs ~3000lbs with a driver, so it makes it slightly less than both the GT3 and TT. On most tracks I run at, I have the same entry speeds as most GT3's/TT's, so I feel that I would put as much if not more abuse on the brakes? I can also say they stopped my car with great performance from several 140-160 repetitive stops.

Furthermore, in my short experience, every AWD car I have ever driven or owned has been far superior on the brakes than RWD/FWD counterparts. I was once told by a racer who runs the Audi RS6's that the force applied over the brakes is masked to all four wheels because of the AWD. The differential further acts as a brake device in this instance. This in turn would, IMO, allow the heavier TT to achieve the same braking performance as the GT3. In the long run though, the TT would see fade before the GT3? So this raises my question again, is the $8k Porsche wants for PCCB worth the money. How many 997TT's will be running full day track events?

FWIW, the TT has always been Porsches flagship model (Not including RS's and Motorsports vehicles). It should be faster than the GT3 in most if not all catagories. What worries me is that the prestigious GT3RS WON'T be faster, or live up to what most want. Time will see! For the money though, it would be a nice 997S and a 993 C2S gutted and worked for me.

Wes

RSA333

Colm-

So you know more about ceramics than I do - I will give you that - and you may be right. I am only just this collector of postgraduate degrees in medicine, physics, engineering and computer graphics.

But I have participated in over 58 track events (PCA DE, TracQuest, Club Racing, SCCA, IMSA) and I have never had problems with Porsche steel brakes - but i don't always win, so maybe I am going 9/10ths instead of 10/10ths most of the time, and that is why I don't have problems.

Also - I am an old guy (53) who comes from this old and outdated tradition that seat time works better for me than does the technology.

You win, but I can't afford an additional $8K in brakes, rather put that into racing modifications and events.

Kind regards - Gerry

whakiewes

How about this - You both are overeducated, underpaid, Porsche enthusiasts . Both know more than you should about ceramic technology, two differing opinions. I have driven several cars with ceramics, including two with PCCB and I honestly felt no difference over steel. Albeit this was not track driving, there was no less performance for street driving IMO. I am a young guy (19), but I also feel that seat time plays more of a roll than marketing. I have had no problems with GT3/TT brakes, and even if I was purchasing a new GT3/TT, PCCB's wouldn't interest me. I would rather invest the $8k into a childs future education fund, a nice lawn mower, lathe, or something a little more useful to me. To each there own though - If I was given a free GT3/TT with any options I wanted, I would probably get PCCB though.

For me its all about the money! I'll buy a $3000 suit over a $500 suit because you can see the quality the second you put it on. It gets tough though when you are talking about the differences between Brioni, Zegna, and Armani suits. This to me is the same as the PCCB. Quality has to prove itself, and fortunately for me, the steels have been proven, look as nice, and work as well.

Wes

Joe S.

Anyone know the weight savings per wheel of PCCB vs. steel?