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New cars at MSRP and used cars above MSRP

 
Old 05-24-2019, 03:47 AM
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RAudi Driver
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Default New cars at MSRP and used cars above MSRP

Not posting in the classified section and still wondering if I'm going to get reprimanded for starting a thread about the subject in this area.

Just read through another thread and appears that a sizable number of members got their replies deleted. Just wondering if anyone received a real reason their post was deleted?

You inquire about a car at MSRP and your reply is deleted and you get a warning. Wondering what forum rule was violated.

I know that Ferrari n.a has a rule set in place where dealers have to stick to MSRP on new cars. This is just hearsay, but I hear that some states don't allow dealerships to sell new cars above MSRP. Ferrari dealers can work around that by selling the car to a customer and immediately buying it back. They can then sell the car CPO at any price they desire, which is usually above MSRP. What's in it for the customer? A guaranteed allocation on another car they truly want or some other favor the dealer makes happen. Noticed that a Porsche Premiere dealer has ZERO new GT3's RS's for sale and almost double digit CPO's for sale.

Surprises me how that many customers would go buy a car only to sell it after 200 miles. Wondering if the Premiere dealer was the dealership that originally sold the car.

Not here to hurt anyone's business. Just genuinely curious.

I know I'm going to get flamed here so burn me up. Enquiring minds need to know.
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:24 AM
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I know you are curious and here is one answer.
I cannot test drive GT3 or GT3RS
so I buy every variant when they come out
some I keep like my 4.0
others are really just so so cars... most other RS
some I keep a year. some I keep a week b/c it's not that exiting like 991.2RS
I used to offer to RL'ster at msrp, generally lower than mkt. but too many tire kickers here.
so I just dump at dealer.
dealer usually pay mkt price. which for my sub 1000 mile car is more or less msrp.
if they paid msrp, they need to sell above msrp.
but in general, purchase and sales price need not be related.
an item should be priced as high as consumers are willing to pay.
and some ppl wonder why I get a few cars at msrp. wells hey aren't exactly msrp.
EX: I buy a lot of cars and on crap like sport toruisimo or cayenne, I still pay msrp not discounted.
every month 2-3 of my cars is at service paying high labor rates when I know I can get them done faster and cheaper.
I spend a LARGE amount of money at their parts dept year after year.

that said there are still greedy dealers that sell at "strange prices"
I seriously doubt that as independent consumers (not a shop) that any dealer parts dept have customer buying as much as I do or servicing as many cars for one customer.

but greed is a sin.
I hope the dealers know that. and I am speaking about one of my current Bay Area dealers who has been disappointing of late. but hey, I don't have to buy from CA.
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Old 05-24-2019, 12:56 PM
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That's some serious car OCD. I don't have that but kinda wish I did. Actually, wish I could afford to have that but I can only fit 2 cars in the garage, which is also limited by my 2 car bank account.

Surprises me on how many 991.2's are on the market preowned and almost none new.
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:26 PM
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The thread in question: https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...or-sale-3.html

I don't understand the market at all here. I get what mooty is saying in that if they offer you the car new you buy it, but then why on earth would the dealers buy them back? And why would they buy them back > MSRP? Or am I even more naieve in that I'm assuming here that these were sold to a real customer and then sold back to the dealer?
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:39 PM
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i'm sure there are many reasons why essentially new cars wind up back at dealerships and then offered at prices above MSRP.
some are due to people like Mooty who have car Attention Deficit Disorder
and i'm sure some are VIPs (actual program or otherwise) who know they can try out the car and still not lose much or even make money if they decide to sell back to dealer.
how much "collusion" is going on in the later case is anyone's guess.

the sheer number of 2019 GT3 RS's at the dealer you are referring to did surprise me though.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by GM.RS View Post
The thread in question: https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...or-sale-3.html

I don't understand the market at all here. I get what mooty is saying in that if they offer you the car new you buy it, but then why on earth would the dealers buy them back? And why would they buy them back > MSRP? Or am I even more naieve in that I'm assuming here that these were sold to a real customer and then sold back to the dealer?
I think the scenario is these big dealers like PNH and others scramble hard to earn as many GT car allocations as they can. Selling them gets them other cars to sell as well. So they receive ten new GT cars, some where ordered by good customers and some where earned for their open inventory. These are huge money makers. They get the margin they make on a 200K car (20K) plus (10-20K on ADM). That's up to 40K per car. If new GT cars start to sit for awhile they need to go because of the juice they are paying. In an effort to move them they have to pay too much or high market value for someones one year old GT car. That's what John at PNH was referring to. They generally don't mind because they move the new car they are paying juice on and get another GT car they can toss an ADM on so on. It's a money making scenario like no other when there isn't enough inventory in the market. The problem now is there is more than enough inventory in the market and Porsche kinda lost the sweet spot. Correction coming (all of the 2019 used GT product for sale). They are trying to still get ADM's on new GT cars but that might be changing. I'm not feeling sorry for PNH (John is a great guy, doesn't set their prices) because they bought all of those used GT's wrong. Just don't tell me they have to put ADM's on used cars to make money. Porsche is very smart, they probably made all of that diesel gate money back and then some with the flood of GT cars they built in the last 3-5 years. I wonder if they will keep the tap open or dial it back. The other premier brand that mimics Porsche is Rolex and they NEVER make too much inventory. They are the masters of a perfectly executed/managed brand. Man that was a ramble. Sorry..

Last edited by Mr. Adair; 05-27-2019 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:00 AM
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Porsche is good at getting rich guys on the wheel - GT3 to GT3RS to GT2RS and by then it's almost time for the next revision 991.1 to 991.2 to 992. Plus those guys are often down for the special editions too - R, Speedster, etc. Most of the GT cars I buy are used and traded on some bigger/newer variant. Only new ones I've bought have been when someone orders and backs out (my .1 RS for example).
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:46 AM
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So Porsche Dealers move the car once, when new, collect all the manufacturer incentives, then buy the car back and resell again without the time constraint pressure?

Can't be mad at that.


I only brought up this subject because of Ferrari's US policy.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RAudi Driver View Post
That's some serious car OCD. I don't have that but kinda wish I did. Actually, wish I could afford to have that but I can only fit 2 cars in the garage, which is also limited by my 2 car bank account.

Surprises me on how many 991.2's are on the market preowned and almost none new.
OCD is a bad thing.


Originally Posted by GM.RS View Post
The thread in question: https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...or-sale-3.html

I don't understand the market at all here. I get what mooty is saying in that if they offer you the car new you buy it, but then why on earth would the dealers buy them back? And why would they buy them back > MSRP? Or am I even more naieve in that I'm assuming here that these were sold to a real customer and then sold back to the dealer?
I can't explain all the used cars but some I can.
I know a group of ppl who orders anything with GT in the model name. SAP, PCNA, PAG seems to be unwilling to hire Japanese brains to teach them how to get scheduling right. when your GT3RS, GT3, GT3T and GT2RS all arriving within 6 months of each other, the wives usually are not very happy... some of us then procured large warehouses to hide cars but little do you know that 3500sf with 4 lifts filled up quickly and cars are not parking on my office driveway, home driveway, and random streets... not me but others I know. we would be more than happy to sell it to you at msrp (even below msrp; like my GT3T, GT3 and GT3RS). but if you want to buy a bargain from me, pls do not make me work for it, YOU need to work to get the bargain. I don't like to take picture or answer questions. car is new, I didnt hit a wall. if thats not good enough an ad, then you just lost my patience. I sell a car to CJ or PNH, I say to them car is good. here is my account. money shows up. car gets picked up. I have a lot less headache. then they answer zillion questions, photos, blah blah and get you financed. it take 10 ppl to kick the tire before a car is sold. I think the dealers are entitled to make a few bucks. and John W is actually polite and friendly. if you had to buy a car from me, I will be surfing, texting, eating and likely flip you off if you don't like my price. so while you may get a bargain buying private, you have to work at it. when you buy from a dealer (with some mark up, not something stupid, mind you), you get a much friendlier treatment.

not sure why there's a lot of 991 out there. but to me, it was not the car I wanted. didnt dig under my skin. maybe others felt the same.

this is not to defend flippers. some buy the car realized it's not that great and dump it. some buy the car with the intent to re-sell and make a quick bucks.
not all fruits are bad.

when you buy enough cars, you start to see patterns and you know what's reality and whats... well "virtual reality"...

and I am not defending any dealers.
the 'FAVORED' dealers on RL has not always delivered cars to me at msrp or above msrp. but it's ok. I don't wear panties. if you tell me you don't have enough cars, I get it.
if you want 100k over, I say thank you but I hope the college you are sending your kids to are also charging you 100k more than other kids. karma is a bitch.
but what irritates me is LYING. some dealer has x cars but they insist on telling me they have x-2 cars and I will get the next one.....
you know, I can find out how many cars each dealers get one way or another....
I'll bribe your staff with enough $ to get them to talk...
I am an extremist and I give ppl long leash.... but don't pull that leash tight on me..
I tell my office, IT'S OK TO LIE TO ME... BUT DON'T GET CAUGHT... IF I CATCH YOU IN A LIE...............

ok off to my meds now
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:29 PM
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Lol. Or. Just buy more old ****.
Soothes the soul
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyerx View Post
Lol. Or. Just buy more old ****.
Soothes the soul
u get rid of my 86. i’m buying

if mr emory would just respond my text we can get one ordered
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Old 05-25-2019, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RAudi Driver View Post

Just read through another thread and appears that a sizable number of members got their replies deleted. Just wondering if anyone received a real reason their post was deleted?
In short dealerships pay to be Vendors on RL, and its in RLs best interest to keep them happy. This is the real reason that is often disguised behind "FS rules, no commenting on price, etc."
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyerx View Post
Lol. Or. Just buy more old ****.
Soothes the soul
A lot of owners selling those antiques have bigger dreamer prices than stealers with these new GT cars. haha
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:59 PM
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Don't get me started on how RL is being moderatored, you can't say anything anymore even if the truth hurts.
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3 View Post
Don't get me started on how RL is being moderatored, you can't say anything anymore even if the truth hurts.
it's almost as bad as your tax evasion
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