997 GT3 RS versus 991.2 GT3
12-23-2017, 10:39 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
I don't know the American market but after peaking in mid-2015 the Euro market dropped back a bit over the following year and has been flat since so given that the 997.2 RS is arguably the best driver's car ever made I think the next move is more likely to be up than down. If the 991.2 GT3 RS does not have a manual option it is likely the 997.2 will be the last manual RS, which should boost its prices.
And some of the other threads talk of the .2 RS being driven as a DD and accumulation some decent miles on them. Love it.
As one gets deeper into the decision process the issue comes up as to history of each car and how can one tell if it's been tracked (not necessarily a bad thing) and / or importantly abused and possibly damaged. My thoughts are that people that own these cars have the financial wherewithal to bypass insurance claims and simply pay for damages and keep the CarFax history clean. The coolant pipes issues are well known but what about others? I would think that a detailed, hoist-up, examination by a reputable body shop, in addition to a PPI checking for over-revs etc... would be in order, correct?
Is there any thread here that goes into detail on what to look out for?
TIA (thanks in advance).
12-23-2017, 09:54 PM
#47
I haven't looked for such a thread but you've covered the basics. Indicators of heavy track use: over-revs, wear on steering, suspension and brakes, damage to inner rims and underside of car, cracks in the lower plastic bodywork, lots of stone chips, lowered suspension, extra camber. The discs are the easiest giveaway if they haven't been changed: high wear for the km, wear grooves, cracks radiating from cross-drilled holes, discolouration. Indicators of accident damage: inconsistent orange peel, overspray in trim junctions and underneath the car, colour differences (but on white cars the polyurethane bumpers go slightly cream even with original factory paint) poor panel alignment, incorrect decals alignment.
12-23-2017, 11:03 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Just the comment I was looking for. I am continually intrigued by the 997.2 GT3 RS. I came close to picking up a higher mileage example but ended up settling on another Gen-1 Spyder. Very happy for now but... given the current shortage of 991.2 GT3's I've gone back to stalking RS's. From your comments it may be the holy grail, one the car to keep if you have one. But what about buying one now? The prices seem high, one local example on the market for $188K USDs.
Give this price, would you jump in again? Guys are lamented selling their RS's but why not jump back in?
Your thoughts appreciated.
Give this price, would you jump in again? Guys are lamented selling their RS's but why not jump back in?
Your thoughts appreciated.
I have nothing to add other than the fact that you’re looking for an RS excites me. If I could do it over again, I would’ve skipped the GT3 and went straight for an RS. But to your point, these cars are in short supply in Canada (especially locally), and while the car you drove on our cruise up to Porteau Cove a couple of months back was nice, I don’t think it was the “right” car (no buckets, high mileage, etc.).
With that said, if you’re considering buying an GT3 or RS and planning to daily drive it, the only advice I could give to you is don’t. Is it manageable? Yes. Is it enjoyable? Absolutely not. 2 months ago, I was singing a different tune, but eventually the heavy clutch, squeaks and rattles, getting in and out of the bucket seats, scraping the lip on absolutely everything, and not being able to fully wind out that wonderful Mezger engine will begin to really frustrate you. The novelty wears off, and it wears off quick. But in those rare instances where you have the car in right setting (early morning BBC run, track days, etc.), it makes all those compromises almost worth it.
Good luck in your search!
12-24-2017, 01:05 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by erikerik
Pm me the specs and asking on your 997.1 RS.
They made 1106 997.1 RS's. the 997.1 and 997.2 RS's are already modern classics.. i'm not biased at all. =)
They made 1106 997.1 RS's. the 997.1 and 997.2 RS's are already modern classics.. i'm not biased at all. =)
997 GT production numbers...
997.1 GT3 2378
997.1 GT3 RS 1909
997.2 GT3. 2200
997.2 GT3 RS 2000
997 GT2 RS. 500
997 RS 4.0. 600
12-24-2017, 03:38 AM
#50
12-24-2017, 03:46 AM
#51
All 996/997 GT cars are very rare vs. 991 GT's, think long term.;-)
12-24-2017, 10:07 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
The 997 4.0 was great.
Just a bit faster and polished then the 997 3.8RS but I never liked the suspension as much as on the 3.8RS because the helper springs I think at Sebring.
But with really good shocks and setup it’s great.
Then I got a Hot Rod 964 and it was driving a 997 but better gearbox but no power.
Great fun on track but much more fun on the street. Really feel old school, small package, rear engine but with ABS and proper rear suspension and classic look.
I would take the 964 every time over a 997 for Canyon driving.
not stock VS stock but really well setup 964 VS 4.0.
I sold 4.0 because money and got pleasant surprised with 964.
tbought that I would hate PDK RWS, etc, etc... when I got 991RS.
but as soon as I drive it I loved it all. Just so violent and fast. More fun for me as well because it’s more comfortable to drive to the track (no trailer) and safer and better on track out of the box. Only dislike is 21” wheels.
I want to run under warranty, because money so that’s a factor but even with that out of the equation I prefer the 991.
the 997’s had some little issues and out of warranty it can add up if you track it a lot.
Clutches, radiators, gearboxes, transcooler valves, lines etc.
At 24,000 miles about 14,000 track it’s never needed anything but service and consumables, so that’s nice.
i get the charm of the 997’s loved all of them. But Mr Purple is the only one I intend to keep forever and relegate to street driver once the warranty runs out.
Just a bit faster and polished then the 997 3.8RS but I never liked the suspension as much as on the 3.8RS because the helper springs I think at Sebring.
But with really good shocks and setup it’s great.
Then I got a Hot Rod 964 and it was driving a 997 but better gearbox but no power.
Great fun on track but much more fun on the street. Really feel old school, small package, rear engine but with ABS and proper rear suspension and classic look.
I would take the 964 every time over a 997 for Canyon driving.
not stock VS stock but really well setup 964 VS 4.0.
I sold 4.0 because money and got pleasant surprised with 964.
tbought that I would hate PDK RWS, etc, etc... when I got 991RS.
but as soon as I drive it I loved it all. Just so violent and fast. More fun for me as well because it’s more comfortable to drive to the track (no trailer) and safer and better on track out of the box. Only dislike is 21” wheels.
I want to run under warranty, because money so that’s a factor but even with that out of the equation I prefer the 991.
the 997’s had some little issues and out of warranty it can add up if you track it a lot.
Clutches, radiators, gearboxes, transcooler valves, lines etc.
At 24,000 miles about 14,000 track it’s never needed anything but service and consumables, so that’s nice.
i get the charm of the 997’s loved all of them. But Mr Purple is the only one I intend to keep forever and relegate to street driver once the warranty runs out.
If I’d be a collector, I would get the 997 but for me it’s just a tool and I hated the 4.0 pricing making me sell. Happy to see Now, after 2.5 years the 991RS are available for insured value in case mine burns down or I was it up.
12-24-2017, 04:31 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
I haven't looked for such a thread but you've covered the basics. Indicators of heavy track use: over-revs, wear on steering, suspension and brakes, damage to inner rims and underside of car, cracks in the lower plastic bodywork, lots of stone chips, lowered suspension, extra camber. The discs are the easiest giveaway if they haven't been changed: high wear for the km, wear grooves, cracks radiating from cross-drilled holes, discolouration. Indicators of accident damage: inconsistent orange peel, overspray in trim junctions and underneath the car, colour differences (but on white cars the polyurethane bumpers go slightly cream even with original factory paint) poor panel alignment, incorrect decals alignment.
Joel,
I have nothing to add other than the fact that you’re looking for an RS excites me. If I could do it over again, I would’ve skipped the GT3 and went straight for an RS. But to your point, these cars are in short supply in Canada (especially locally), and while the car you drove on our cruise up to Porteau Cove a couple of months back was nice, I don’t think it was the “right” car (no buckets, high mileage, etc.).
With that said, if you’re considering buying an GT3 or RS and planning to daily drive it, the only advice I could give to you is don’t. Is it manageable? Yes. Is it enjoyable? Absolutely not. 2 months ago, I was singing a different tune, but eventually the heavy clutch, squeaks and rattles, getting in and out of the bucket seats, scraping the lip on absolutely everything, and not being able to fully wind out that wonderful Mezger engine will begin to really frustrate you. The novelty wears off, and it wears off quick. But in those rare instances where you have the car in right setting (early morning BBC run, track days, etc.), it makes all those compromises almost worth it.
Good luck in your search!
I have nothing to add other than the fact that you’re looking for an RS excites me. If I could do it over again, I would’ve skipped the GT3 and went straight for an RS. But to your point, these cars are in short supply in Canada (especially locally), and while the car you drove on our cruise up to Porteau Cove a couple of months back was nice, I don’t think it was the “right” car (no buckets, high mileage, etc.).
With that said, if you’re considering buying an GT3 or RS and planning to daily drive it, the only advice I could give to you is don’t. Is it manageable? Yes. Is it enjoyable? Absolutely not. 2 months ago, I was singing a different tune, but eventually the heavy clutch, squeaks and rattles, getting in and out of the bucket seats, scraping the lip on absolutely everything, and not being able to fully wind out that wonderful Mezger engine will begin to really frustrate you. The novelty wears off, and it wears off quick. But in those rare instances where you have the car in right setting (early morning BBC run, track days, etc.), it makes all those compromises almost worth it.
Good luck in your search!
It appears that anything in the Porsche line up that is slightly rare / raw are good cars to pick up. My two Macan stints and a recent romp in a new Carrera GTS at Porsche Experience Center LA (PECLA) I believe thoroughly cured me of any want of a newer Porsche. It's not that their bad cars, right? But they lack the certain connection that people in this forum are looking for.
Of note I did rekindle my interest in track driving at the PECLA. It was really quite a blast! And I really don't think my 993 or Spyder are cars to do that with.
Anyways, thanks for the feed back guys. Appreciate it.
Last edited by Zeus993; 12-25-2017 at 04:50 PM.
12-24-2017, 07:03 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
The 997 4.0 was great.
Just a bit faster and polished then the 997 3.8RS but I never liked the suspension as much as on the 3.8RS because the helper springs I think at Sebring.
But with really good shocks and setup it’s great.
Then I got a Hot Rod 964 and it was driving a 997 but better gearbox but no power.
Great fun on track but much more fun on the street. Really feel old school, small package, rear engine but with ABS and proper rear suspension and classic look.
I would take the 964 every time over a 997 for Canyon driving.
not stock VS stock but really well setup 964 VS 4.0.
I sold 4.0 because money and got pleasant surprised with 964.
tbought that I would hate PDK RWS, etc, etc... when I got 991RS.
but as soon as I drive it I loved it all. Just so violent and fast. More fun for me as well because it’s more comfortable to drive to the track (no trailer) and safer and better on track out of the box. Only dislike is 21” wheels.
I want to run under warranty, because money so that’s a factor but even with that out of the equation I prefer the 991.
the 997’s had some little issues and out of warranty it can add up if you track it a lot.
Clutches, radiators, gearboxes, transcooler valves, lines etc.
At 24,000 miles about 14,000 track it’s never needed anything but service and consumables, so that’s nice.
i get the charm of the 997’s loved all of them. But Mr Purple is the only one I intend to keep forever and relegate to street driver once the warranty runs out.
Just a bit faster and polished then the 997 3.8RS but I never liked the suspension as much as on the 3.8RS because the helper springs I think at Sebring.
But with really good shocks and setup it’s great.
Then I got a Hot Rod 964 and it was driving a 997 but better gearbox but no power.
Great fun on track but much more fun on the street. Really feel old school, small package, rear engine but with ABS and proper rear suspension and classic look.
I would take the 964 every time over a 997 for Canyon driving.
not stock VS stock but really well setup 964 VS 4.0.
I sold 4.0 because money and got pleasant surprised with 964.
tbought that I would hate PDK RWS, etc, etc... when I got 991RS.
but as soon as I drive it I loved it all. Just so violent and fast. More fun for me as well because it’s more comfortable to drive to the track (no trailer) and safer and better on track out of the box. Only dislike is 21” wheels.
I want to run under warranty, because money so that’s a factor but even with that out of the equation I prefer the 991.
the 997’s had some little issues and out of warranty it can add up if you track it a lot.
Clutches, radiators, gearboxes, transcooler valves, lines etc.
At 24,000 miles about 14,000 track it’s never needed anything but service and consumables, so that’s nice.
i get the charm of the 997’s loved all of them. But Mr Purple is the only one I intend to keep forever and relegate to street driver once the warranty runs out.
If I’d be a collector, I would get the 997 but for me it’s just a tool and I hated the 4.0 pricing making me sell. Happy to see Now, after 2.5 years the 991RS are available for insured value in case mine burns down or I was it up.
I love the go cart feel of 964rs but it lacks the screeching drama of 997 4.0; that car is angry and half the time feels like it's driving you; my fav car of all time hands down.
991rs is a marvel of engineering. It's a better road car and a better track car.
12-26-2017, 12:08 AM
#59
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
^ get a 964
have rodger strip it and do simple int.
put 4.0 in it. dont make air cooled 4.0 like singer
just shove a 4.0L in it (watercooled) or a 3.8RS
run the modern intake and OEM ecu with 997GT gear box regeared correctly
thank me later.
have rodger strip it and do simple int.
put 4.0 in it. dont make air cooled 4.0 like singer
just shove a 4.0L in it (watercooled) or a 3.8RS
run the modern intake and OEM ecu with 997GT gear box regeared correctly
thank me later.
12-26-2017, 01:00 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mooty
^ get a 964
have rodger strip it and do simple int.
put 4.0 in it. dont make air cooled 4.0 like singer
just shove a 4.0L in it (watercooled) or a 3.8RS
run the modern intake and OEM ecu with 997GT gear box regeared correctly
thank me later.
have rodger strip it and do simple int.
put 4.0 in it. dont make air cooled 4.0 like singer
just shove a 4.0L in it (watercooled) or a 3.8RS
run the modern intake and OEM ecu with 997GT gear box regeared correctly
thank me later.