99711mike82

Fellow comrades,

It's been almost a year since I brought Kayla into my life ('07 C2 6MT)... And jt has been nothing short of an amazing experience, and still continues to be so!!

My question is this.... Growing up, when learning to drive stick, I was always "trained" to always keep RPMs between 2-3K (other than racing/track days), and that 1st gear should only be used to "move" the car, and then should shift into 2nd immediately after...

That being said, this mentality obviously transferred over into the way I have been driving my 997.1 on most days... Don't get me wrong, I've had some spirited drives and my share of "pushing" her a bit harder at times, but definitely not my normal driving habits.... And now... After I've gotten to really know my P-car and her habits, personality, etc.... I can't help but deduce that everything I learned at a young age with regard to how to properly drive a MT car, should be thrown out the window when it comes to my 911!!! I've figured out that she doesn't come to life until AFTER 3K rpms.... And Im wondering if any of you can validate this???? I normally get up to 4th gear when driving around the city/suburbs here in So Cal, but now Im wondering if my max gear around town should be 3rd instead of 4th?? I guess the best way to put it is... She just seems to be begging me for "more" after each drive.... I also notice a significant uptick in her response time and overall performance after she's been properly warmed up in the mornings after a cold start....

Has anyone had the same experience?? Or am I just crazy?? Do these cars REALLY need (and want) to be winded out regularly to exhibit their best performance???

And if so.... What rev ranges/shift intervals in comparison to RPMs should I regularly be shifting at???

I'm more than willing to re-train myself on how to drive my 997 properly, but would appreciate any wisdom and "coaching" you fine folks can give me!!!

Thanks all!

-Mike in So Cal

platinum997

Yes, most modern cars, especially a 911 likes to use the rpm range.

Whatever you do, don't keep those rpms in the 2-3k range on your 911. It's actually bad for these motors.. moreso in a .1 which you have.

Everyone drives different but I cruise around at 3500-4000 and take her to 6000-6500 on a regular basis.

In 3rd. Hold the rpm at right below 4k.. stomp on it and shift into 4th around 6500.. Hold it down until 6500 in 4th and thank me afterwards.

SoCal C2S

That's why I like freeway on ramps....2nd in the clover leaf to 6k, 3rd on the merge to 6k, and 4th to the fast lane. At that time it's "wholly bagels Batman!"

It's good to let the wolf out (howl)!

MichaelC4

Thanks for the question and answers. I've been using cruise at about 3,000 RPM too. I'll step it up.

Bruce In Philly

Coupla things......

First, this is my speculation and some facts ......

1. Combustion engines have a torque curve where maximum torque is at higher RPMs (your car's torque curve is published in your owner manual.. check it out). If your objective is to have maximum acceleration on hand at any time, such as you would on a track, you keep the RPMs up real high in the "power band".
2. I read in Christophorous many years ago where one of Porsche's design objectives was to flatten the torque curve to give more torque at lower RPMs... I forget why they wanted to do this but it was obvious to me at the time that Porsche was trying to design an engine that was more appropriate for the average drivers so the uneducated or less aggressive driver can experience whoohoo!!! whenever they wanted (just hit the gas)..... a more experienced sports car driver would clutch, blip throttle, drop gear (to get RPMs into power band) then floor it.
3. Most drivers who are not knowledgeable or use their cars as a daily driver (me), don't want to drive to the drug store with engine roaring and car jerking around and therefore could benefit from a flattened torque curve... better drivability for the average schmoe. (But honestly, the most fun cars to drive are those with the power up in the RPMs requiring constant attention to RPMs, gearing, and working the system.)
4. If an engineer was designing an engine for maximum track performance, he/she would design a torque curve in harmony with gearing to always have maximum torque on hand..... resulting in always driving the car above say 5K RPMs..... something that frankly, you would not design if you are trying to sell fantasy to a mass market (you will need a flatter torque curve for that).
5. Given that Porsche is trying to sell higher and higher volumes to well-healed fantasy seekers, I don't at all believe these newer engines "like" or "want" or "benefit" from high revs... that would be kinda dumb IMO for a consumer company.... why would you purposely build an engine that will clog up from the type of driving that most of your customers will be doing. (I understand the old air-cooled engines would gum up if you didn't open them up occasionally... but so did my old 1970 Buick Skylark)

Just drive it and enjoy it. If you want to learn how to drive a sports car, take some lessons at track, learn to heel-toe downshifts (blip on downshifts), and drive in the high-torque, high-RPM range.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

scottiemac

^^^
What he said.

jchapura

In what way is it bad? Can you tell us more about failure mechanism(s) that would result?

I know this is a simplistic example but it seems somewhat intuitive-
Which motor will last longer?
1) Car taken through normal drive cycles, warm-up, and maintenance but only topping out at about 3.5k RPM - to failure.
2) Conservative warm-up (3k til oil at 180 deg) and maintenance but drive cycles topping out every time at 6.5k RPM - to failure.

Saaboteur

My view is that the only behaviour to be avoided in any manual transmission car is to really lug it in a higher gear than would be typical for that rpm, ie starting in second or third gear. The engine isn't a large capacity, torque-rich V8 after all.

What I would really like is an easy way to have a shorter final drive. In my old S2000, there were multiple final drive ring and pinion gears available, just a matter of swapping the pumpkin. The gearing on the 997 (and seemingly other Porsche sports cars too) seems to be quite tall and that's a slight hurdle to enjoying the upper end of the RPM range on a more frequent basis, ie second gear can exceed the highway speed limit rather easily.

Wayne Smith

As I understand it, maximum load on the IMS occurs at idle, or under heavy loads at low RPMs. So these are conditions to be avoided.

Does this include near 3000 RPMs? I don't know. I am sure someone here can answer that question. The 996 group is well versed on this as well.

What Bruce said can be repeated. Adding in that wear is a function of friction times travel distance. If you double the RPMs, you double the travel distance. This is probably not your goal.

I know, I know, this is a simplistic statement regarding a complex situation. But to answer your question, goals such as wear, mpg, service, fun, etc must be included.

BTW, per Bruce's post ... the torque curve on the 9A1 motor looks nothing like previous motors.

Ben Z

When I learned to drive a stick, the car didn't have a tach, so it was shift by sound/feel. I still pretty much do it that way.

dasams

Oil pressure increases with engine rpm. Lugging an engine, such as cruising at 30 mph in 6th and then flooring it to accelerate, puts a heavy load on the engine, i.e. bearings that need oil, at a time of low oil pressure. No thanks.

jchapura

I don't think the poster was referring to "lugging" (but he/she never did respond). Everyone agrees that lugging is bad. What I'm trying to learn about is this idea that seemingly just Porsche engines have this specific sensitivity to low RPM operation (and low RPM and lugging are not synonymous). Why the sensitivity? What design flaw or compromise? What failure mechanism(s) if you violate the rules?

99711mike82

Thanks for the responses all...

Still looking to gather more insight...

Jchapura, you are correct... I know that high gears in very low rpms is terrible for the engine for sure.... But just wanted to make sure I am driving the car the way it's supposed to be driven, and also what technical data is there to explain the reasoning behind it?

As an update, I made it a point to drive the car more aggressively (around town) going forward... Today I kept RPMs over 3K after proper warm up and didn't upshift passed 3rd gear, where before I would have been cruising in 4th. Only differences I've noticed so far, are a slightly increased oil temp, more gas consumption, and today, for the first time, I noticed a weird burning smell after higher revs... ??? Once I'd get back to 3-4K rpms, the smell would go away.... Any ideas???

Thanks all... Looking forward to getting as many 997 owners to chime in with their own anecdotal opinions.

dasams

My post was in response to your question about why lugging is bad.

Our NA flat 6 engines are free spinners that produce relatively low levels of torque at low rpm, at least compared to V8's or turbo engines. So it just makes sense to keep the revs up to produce a suitable amount of power. And I don't see it as a design flaw or compromise. And as we all know, hp=(torque*rpm)/5250.

mikemessi

The rpm at which an engine is lugged is a constantly moving target. You can lug a Porsche engine in 6th gear at 2500 rpm if you floor it. You can also be just fine at 1800 rpm cruising in 3rd gear with small throttle inputs. Throttle input and RPMs should be thought of together. You can be in 4th gear at 2500 rpm and slowly roll into the throttle feeding more throttle as rpms increase without issue. I do this every time I shift gears. Rolling in more gas as rpms go up. To just pick an rpm range is way too simple and doesn't fit a constantly changing load/gear/speed.