dawgcatching

Here is a question for you all: say one can get a base C2 6MT in the mid 40's (perfect condition, one owner). That same GTS is $70k for similar mileage.

When quantifying differences between the bottom of the line (base C2 manual) and top of the line (GTS manual) what % increase in performance would you give to the GTS? Let's assume the C2 has SC and PASM. GTS has S-PASM and SC. So, somewhat similar performance options, both 6MT.

How much performance does a GTS give you, and how does that relate to the increased cost? Seems like they depreciate similarly, GTS a bit stronger on resale, but also a larger market for a base C2.

Or, to put it another way: bang for the buck? Which car wins?

kcheves

I hesitate to answer questions like this, but the performance/price curve is asymptotic and you will always get more value buying the lower spec'd cars.

As you've probably seen, the configuration of these cars (launch models excluded) is all over the place, making cost comparisons difficult. You'll need to decide what's important to you and how much you are willing to pay. The more flexible you are, the more options you will have.

Good luck with your search. It's a fun part of the ownership cycle.

jdgamble

Ahhh this is a slippery slope. I could up sell myself from a C2 to a GT3 RS pretty easily if it wasn't for funding. I think it's mainly a financial issue. You buy the best car you can buy given requirements and budget. The good news is that even a base C2 (which I have) is a pretty awesome car. But if my situation was different (i.e. NOT 3 little kids and a sizeable mortgage and a wife that buys too much crap at Target and a strong desire to have people bring me food pretty frequently and a job that undervalues my immense contributions, etc, etc, etc), I would have a low miles 2012 GTS with full leather and all the performance options. That's how it works, I think.

rlh23

What is it with wives at Target? Everytime my wife "has some free time between appointments" it ends up costing $150+.

Traffic53

If you really like looking at the car- as i do- you'd find the GTS widebody adds to the ownership experience and is worth the extra cash. If you don't really care about those details when walking up to the machine, you'd be equally happy with a C2. That is to say, the GTS doesn't do anything magical compared to a C2. I've found the more basic 911s preferable to the fancied-up versions for my use on the street. I had a 997.2 GT3 and moved into a 997 GTS and found the GTS to be twice as useful for half the price. Point being, if you are buying a street car, you'd need to clearly articulate why a C2 doesn't meet your needs. Maybe you want a big wing or a track-focused car or Turbo acceleration or the widebody. All good reasons to move up from a C2. If none of those things are critical, the C2 is the way to go. I thought the GT3 was cool, so I got one. Bad idea. Have better reasons than I did to upgrade from the regular 911 Carrera. For what it's worth.

Rek Loos

911-997.2-Carrera-USA-owners-manual (GTS not specified), Technical data(pg. 286-300) AND Porsche booklet, titled: Clarity. The new 911 Carrera GTS

Manual transmissions

Carrera Carrera GTS (Carrera S powerkit widebody)
Top speed(mph): 179.6 190.8
0-60mph(seconds): 4.7 4.4
0-99mph(seconds): --- 9.7
Engine type: MA 102 MA 101S
Bore, stroke (in.): 3.82/3.21 4.02/3.05
Capacity(size liters): ~3.6 3.8
Net-horsepower 345 408
@ RPM: 6500 7300
Net-torque (lb. ft.) 288 310
@ RPM: 4400 4400-5800
Track, front (in.): 58.5 58.6
Track, rear (in.): 59.7 60.9
Empty wgt.(lbs.). 3120 3131
low range

Using your prices, C2@45k vs GTS@70k, a 25k price premium paid for GTS over C2 gets you a car with an 11 mph more top speed, 3/10th of a second quicker 0-60mph time, 11lbs heavier weight of car empty, 0.2 liter more engine capacity, 63 more hp @ 800 higher rpm, 22 ft.lb. more torque over a 1400 rpm longer range and a rear track 1.2 inches wider. Plus; Sport design bits, center lock spyder wheels, wider body, etc.

Side-note: PDK w/ sport chrono + dramatically reduces accelerating times, 0-99mph is 9.1 seconds for a Carrera GTS equipped with PDK SC+. 997.2 GTS PDK SC+ can hang with some good company, still to this day and it's 5-7 years old.

It's worth the price premium in my opinion.

ZCPSnob

It's also more rare and will hold its value better (speculation of course), so while you are paying a premium now, if you can afford it, you should make it back (or more).

vern1

The gts gets you bigger ***** at cars and coffee

Otherwise at a $25k differential, you are paying +$8k per 10th a sec to 60mph. Worth it??

wjk_glynn

Karl.

wjk_glynn

Drag race between C2 (silver) vs. C2S (yellow) at the 2m33s mark:


Karl.

dawgcatching

If looking at a widebody, what about a C4? Obviously a GTS has some nice upgrades standard, but it sounds like from a performance difference, it's not going to be massive. Suspension upgrades would transform the handling of either car, but a C4 with suspension upgrades probably would be just as fun to own as a GTS stock, no? Also, thinking about percentage of depreciation, seems like the GTS will do better. But it starts as a higher price point car, so in overall value, it's likely to lose more. Seems like a ba2se C2 has lost roughly half its value, a GTS more like $50,000, which is at least as much as half the value of a base C2. Maybe the cheaper car and money spent on HDPE events would yield better results and more fun versus the expensive car and no money left over!

on the other hand, there's no denying the sex appeal of a GTS. With that said, my dream car is a 991 GTS, and that's not going to happen for a while! And that's only if very lucky

dawgcatching

I love Japanese TV! Lots of driving cool cars and eating good food.

Rek Loos

C4 AWD dynamic will be different from rear-drive and introduces a whole new topic to the comparison. I was providing Porsche published data for comparable model years Carrera vs Carrera GTS both with manual trans. If you can give up the manual trans the best real world performance for a decent price will be a 997.2 GTS w/PDK SC+, which a lot of gts are PDK equipped.

The biggest difference between base C2 and GTS is the engine characteristics, you WILL notice a difference between the two, power kit 3.8 engine provides peak torque over a flatter curve, hp is also significantly higher at 408 (107hp/liter) @ 7300 rpm vs C2 345hp (95hp/liter) @ 6500rpm, compare that to 997.1 gt3 415 hp @7600rpm and 300 lb ft @ 5500rpm. The higher rpm threshold makes that last 800-900 rpm music to your ears.

As far as depreciation, both 997.2 C2 and GTS have rolled down the depreciation curve 5 to 7 years now, so should be leveling off even more. Mileage seems to be biggest factor in pricing on 997.2's at this point; clean, well equipped cars with low miles (10k-ish or lower) will always get good money, both on the bid-side and ask-side.

To the +$8k for each 1/10th quicker 0-60 comment, that is just one metric in the comparison I posted, you would need to spread that out over the other performance differences of the cars as well. All of this is a slippery slope in either direction, Porsche spends hundreds of millions in r&d to shave 1/10ths of a second off accelerating times, lap times, etc. for all variants of 911 up to their prototype Le Mans race cars. In this scenario you get those extra 1/10th's for a fraction of the cost PAG spent in aggregate developing them.

NA engines seem to be maxing out at this 110-125hp/per liter ratio. If you can grab one that is 107hp per liter it's prob worth it. Le Mans GT class racing, only has 2 manufacturers with NA, corvette pushrod V8, and Porsche H6, Ferrari, BMW, Ford all running turbos, in the same way the RSR 911 is mid engine, for better performance, Porsche will eventual have to put turbo in GT cars to keep up, then electric after that but thats a long time off. Point I'm making, these engines are special so buy the best one you can afford.

If you can be patient, and accept a car with 30,000 or so miles on it, a clean GTS will pop up in the 60s, just be ready to act.

One thing I will promise you... when you're ripp'n it at 7000-7300rpm with sport/pasm/sport exhaust buttons engaged and the windows down, you'll know where the premium you paid went vs the C2.

Abe Froman

GTS has a lot of cool options: Powerkit, sport design bumper, most have Alcantara, you know the car will have sports exhaust, the wide body is pretty, center lock wheels are not something you see every day; It will hold value better long-term. Also, it has more horsepower than a 991 Carrera S.

Fined

I would say... if you're going to try and make a decision based off performance or performance numbers you've begun about as wrong as is possible.

If that were the case run on down to the local chevy dealership and get yourself a Corvette. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, greatest performance per dollar that I can personally think of.


Justifying spending money based on performance alone is a tough order for a Porsche. My decision (not that it's the only way, or even the right way) was more based on the feel of the cars, what kind of thrill was I getting, and could I be satisfied for the long term without wanting more or to do serious powertrain modification. The GTS was the only pick of the litter that didn't bore me to varying degrees, including 991 base and 991 S.