IMS & bore scoring = scared newbie
01-16-2017, 05:03 PM
#31
Same philosophy as mine!
When I bought my 997.1 new I discovered this forum because I like a little community. It immediately scared me and made me regret the purchase. What did I do? Stopped coming to the forum. Came back about 6 years later once I started thinking about mods. So far the car has been flawless, 8 years and 50k miles. If it breaks at this point I feel like I've gotten my money's worth and I'll happily spend $20k to get a better engine.
FYI ALL Porsches have bore scoring issues. Go read Panamera and Cayenne forums.
FYI ALL Porsches have bore scoring issues. Go read Panamera and Cayenne forums.
01-17-2017, 10:37 AM
#33
01-17-2017, 01:31 PM
#34
Instructor
I'm a newbie 997.1 owner, just got it last day of November 2016. I only got to drive it 250 miles before I put it intio winter storage. I'm new to the forum too, joined in December. I also had a nightmare ownership experience with a 2008 Cayenne S ( See the American car ownership thread ).
I started also to second-guess my purchase immediately after joining Rennlist and freaked out for a day or so. Then I reevaluated my plan, my budget, my research, and looked at all the posts with an open mind. I'm very happy with the car I ended up buying and also appreciate all the comments from experienced owners on the forum, whether I agree with them or not.
I think the important points are:
1. Enjoy your Porsche and drive it as you would like, weekend cruiser, daily driver, or track weapon.
2. Follow the recommended maintenance procedures and do them on time.
3. Keep in mind that these were very expensive cars when new and were designed for performance and not for ease maintenance or low-cost maintenance.
4. There is a pay to play component with any high-end car, regardless of if it is brand-new or if it is used. I am realistic about this and am prepared to spend $2000 per year for maintenance and repairs without getting aggravated. After 250 miles of driving, I spent $2200 to address things that the PPI found prior to purchase. Everyone should have the cost of maintenance on these cars firmly in their mind before they buy one.
5. These cars are now up to 12 years old and are going to have reliability problems that any 12-year-old vehicle would have. Parts degrade overtime not necessarily only due to heat cycles or miles driven.
6. Just because these cars are dream cars for many of us, we need to remember that they are just cars. Overall, I think it is unrealistic to expect any Porsche ownership to be low cost and problem free if you own the car over any period of time and actually drive it ( as opposed to having it as garage art in a car collection ). I expect my brand-new Mazda 6, to start, run and stop every day of the year and still get great gas mileage. That is what it's designed to do and that is what I paid for. I also expected that our 11-year-old Mazda six with 80,000 miles on it was going to need preventive maintenance and repairs done to keep it on the road. And I expected it to eventually break down. That is why I sold it and bought a new one.
7. Expensive failures to happen with these cars. My car had its original engine destroyed by and IMS bearing failure at 20,000 miles. It's OK to read the horror stories of people that I've had major problems, but do not obsess over someone else's nightmare. If you want to follow their advice for preventative measures or certain procedures to watch for a future failure, go ahead if it makes you feel better. If you think it's a waste of time, then don't bother. I don't think anyone should react negatively to advice, especially when you are asking for it. It is up to the person reading the forum whether they want to follow the advice or not.
Just my two cents .......
I started also to second-guess my purchase immediately after joining Rennlist and freaked out for a day or so. Then I reevaluated my plan, my budget, my research, and looked at all the posts with an open mind. I'm very happy with the car I ended up buying and also appreciate all the comments from experienced owners on the forum, whether I agree with them or not.
I think the important points are:
1. Enjoy your Porsche and drive it as you would like, weekend cruiser, daily driver, or track weapon.
2. Follow the recommended maintenance procedures and do them on time.
3. Keep in mind that these were very expensive cars when new and were designed for performance and not for ease maintenance or low-cost maintenance.
4. There is a pay to play component with any high-end car, regardless of if it is brand-new or if it is used. I am realistic about this and am prepared to spend $2000 per year for maintenance and repairs without getting aggravated. After 250 miles of driving, I spent $2200 to address things that the PPI found prior to purchase. Everyone should have the cost of maintenance on these cars firmly in their mind before they buy one.
5. These cars are now up to 12 years old and are going to have reliability problems that any 12-year-old vehicle would have. Parts degrade overtime not necessarily only due to heat cycles or miles driven.
6. Just because these cars are dream cars for many of us, we need to remember that they are just cars. Overall, I think it is unrealistic to expect any Porsche ownership to be low cost and problem free if you own the car over any period of time and actually drive it ( as opposed to having it as garage art in a car collection ). I expect my brand-new Mazda 6, to start, run and stop every day of the year and still get great gas mileage. That is what it's designed to do and that is what I paid for. I also expected that our 11-year-old Mazda six with 80,000 miles on it was going to need preventive maintenance and repairs done to keep it on the road. And I expected it to eventually break down. That is why I sold it and bought a new one.
7. Expensive failures to happen with these cars. My car had its original engine destroyed by and IMS bearing failure at 20,000 miles. It's OK to read the horror stories of people that I've had major problems, but do not obsess over someone else's nightmare. If you want to follow their advice for preventative measures or certain procedures to watch for a future failure, go ahead if it makes you feel better. If you think it's a waste of time, then don't bother. I don't think anyone should react negatively to advice, especially when you are asking for it. It is up to the person reading the forum whether they want to follow the advice or not.
Just my two cents .......
01-17-2017, 03:21 PM
#35
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I'm a newbie 997.1 owner, just got it last day of November 2016. I only got to drive it 250 miles before I put it intio winter storage. I'm new to the forum too, joined in December. I also had a nightmare ownership experience with a 2008 Cayenne S ( See the American car ownership thread ).
I started also to second-guess my purchase immediately after joining Rennlist and freaked out for a day or so. Then I reevaluated my plan, my budget, my research, and looked at all the posts with an open mind. I'm very happy with the car I ended up buying and also appreciate all the comments from experienced owners on the forum, whether I agree with them or not.
I think the important points are:
1. Enjoy your Porsche and drive it as you would like, weekend cruiser, daily driver, or track weapon.
2. Follow the recommended maintenance procedures and do them on time.
3. Keep in mind that these were very expensive cars when new and were designed for performance and not for ease maintenance or low-cost maintenance.
4. There is a pay to play component with any high-end car, regardless of if it is brand-new or if it is used. I am realistic about this and am prepared to spend $2000 per year for maintenance and repairs without getting aggravated. After 250 miles of driving, I spent $2200 to address things that the PPI found prior to purchase. Everyone should have the cost of maintenance on these cars firmly in their mind before they buy one.
5. These cars are now up to 12 years old and are going to have reliability problems that any 12-year-old vehicle would have. Parts degrade overtime not necessarily only due to heat cycles or miles driven.
6. Just because these cars are dream cars for many of us, we need to remember that they are just cars. Overall, I think it is unrealistic to expect any Porsche ownership to be low cost and problem free if you own the car over any period of time and actually drive it ( as opposed to having it as garage art in a car collection ). I expect my brand-new Mazda 6, to start, run and stop every day of the year and still get great gas mileage. That is what it's designed to do and that is what I paid for. I also expected that our 11-year-old Mazda six with 80,000 miles on it was going to need preventive maintenance and repairs done to keep it on the road. And I expected it to eventually break down. That is why I sold it and bought a new one.
7. Expensive failures to happen with these cars. My car had its original engine destroyed by and IMS bearing failure at 20,000 miles. It's OK to read the horror stories of people that I've had major problems, but do not obsess over someone else's nightmare. If you want to follow their advice for preventative measures or certain procedures to watch for a future failure, go ahead if it makes you feel better. If you think it's a waste of time, then don't bother. I don't think anyone should react negatively to advice, especially when you are asking for it. It is up to the person reading the forum whether they want to follow the advice or not.
Just my two cents .......
I started also to second-guess my purchase immediately after joining Rennlist and freaked out for a day or so. Then I reevaluated my plan, my budget, my research, and looked at all the posts with an open mind. I'm very happy with the car I ended up buying and also appreciate all the comments from experienced owners on the forum, whether I agree with them or not.
I think the important points are:
1. Enjoy your Porsche and drive it as you would like, weekend cruiser, daily driver, or track weapon.
2. Follow the recommended maintenance procedures and do them on time.
3. Keep in mind that these were very expensive cars when new and were designed for performance and not for ease maintenance or low-cost maintenance.
4. There is a pay to play component with any high-end car, regardless of if it is brand-new or if it is used. I am realistic about this and am prepared to spend $2000 per year for maintenance and repairs without getting aggravated. After 250 miles of driving, I spent $2200 to address things that the PPI found prior to purchase. Everyone should have the cost of maintenance on these cars firmly in their mind before they buy one.
5. These cars are now up to 12 years old and are going to have reliability problems that any 12-year-old vehicle would have. Parts degrade overtime not necessarily only due to heat cycles or miles driven.
6. Just because these cars are dream cars for many of us, we need to remember that they are just cars. Overall, I think it is unrealistic to expect any Porsche ownership to be low cost and problem free if you own the car over any period of time and actually drive it ( as opposed to having it as garage art in a car collection ). I expect my brand-new Mazda 6, to start, run and stop every day of the year and still get great gas mileage. That is what it's designed to do and that is what I paid for. I also expected that our 11-year-old Mazda six with 80,000 miles on it was going to need preventive maintenance and repairs done to keep it on the road. And I expected it to eventually break down. That is why I sold it and bought a new one.
7. Expensive failures to happen with these cars. My car had its original engine destroyed by and IMS bearing failure at 20,000 miles. It's OK to read the horror stories of people that I've had major problems, but do not obsess over someone else's nightmare. If you want to follow their advice for preventative measures or certain procedures to watch for a future failure, go ahead if it makes you feel better. If you think it's a waste of time, then don't bother. I don't think anyone should react negatively to advice, especially when you are asking for it. It is up to the person reading the forum whether they want to follow the advice or not.
Just my two cents .......
One of the best pieces of advice I've seen here. Well said. I too bought my '05 C2 about the same time you did.
The only thing I can add is that if you obtain one, get a warranty, preferably from Fidelity, since they are recommended by Porsche dealerships. For my peace of mind, it was worth the investment. My IMS bearing was done by the previous owner, but if by the small chance I get scoring, I'm covered.
01-17-2017, 11:08 PM
#36
Couldn't agree more. I just assume that I bought a great car at a $20,000 discount because of the risk. And if I happen to be unlucky, I'll have paid what the car was worth to begin with. In the meantime it's all grins.
01-18-2017, 11:43 PM
#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
Great cars, and I knew going in about the IMS, but the bore scoring is what really threw me for a loop. I plan to keep the car for a long time, and have subscribed to a diligent maintenance schedule.
All great points above.
All great points above.
06-11-2017, 03:22 AM
#38
Have it checked before you buy it period!
I bought my 997 Gen2 from a main dealer with 12 month warranty. Therefore I thought - 'all good no worries for a year +'.
Sadly wrong.
Mt gen2 has bore scoring confirmed by SCSPorsche UK. The purchase garage and the warranty are trying to find ways not to pay out.
Warranty company saying issue 'there when you bought it', garage ignoring SCSPorsche findings. Now the car is at a Porsche Dealership for an 'oil consumption test' which if it passes they will be ignoring the scoring and say within acceptable parameters. Porsche here are totally denying Gen2's can have bore scoring!!
Long and short is -
1. Get it fully checked inc boresope camera before you buy it regardless.
2. Get it fully checked inc borescope camera before you but it regardless.
You will know for yourself if the car is ok or not.
You will not have any niggling doubts.
You will sleep better if you have a worrying disposition.
As you own and drive it and enjoy it do all the stuff many people have reported to support trouble free ownership.
Regards
Glen Wells
Sadly wrong.
Mt gen2 has bore scoring confirmed by SCSPorsche UK. The purchase garage and the warranty are trying to find ways not to pay out.
Warranty company saying issue 'there when you bought it', garage ignoring SCSPorsche findings. Now the car is at a Porsche Dealership for an 'oil consumption test' which if it passes they will be ignoring the scoring and say within acceptable parameters. Porsche here are totally denying Gen2's can have bore scoring!!
Long and short is -
1. Get it fully checked inc boresope camera before you buy it regardless.
2. Get it fully checked inc borescope camera before you but it regardless.
You will know for yourself if the car is ok or not.
You will not have any niggling doubts.
You will sleep better if you have a worrying disposition.
As you own and drive it and enjoy it do all the stuff many people have reported to support trouble free ownership.
Regards
Glen Wells
06-11-2017, 04:18 AM
#39
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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I've owned 2 997's and been on the forums for years and just starting to hear about this bore scoring thing..geez...i've also owned 2 996 my advise is - IF THE CAR RUNS GOOD, KEEP IT SERVICED AND FORGET THIS NONSENSE! You dont even have the bad IMS in your car!!!
06-11-2017, 04:20 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
The last generation of the IMSB has the same low failure rate as the first double row version...about 1% or a little less. But there is something you can do...refer to Tony Callas or Jake Raby...you can have your shop remove one of the seals on the bearing which will allow it to get oil lubrication from the engine. Anytime you stress a mechanical component you risk failure. A quality aftermarket service contract (warranty) can buy you a lot of peace of mind.
06-11-2017, 09:46 AM
#41
^^
John,
The OP was concerned about IMS and Bore Scoring. Unfortunately in post No. 38 had his 997.2 bit by bore scoring and his warranty company is giving him the run-around.
I'm thinking one possible good option is to buy a ragged out, high mileage 997.1 at a low price and have the engine properly rebuilt.
John,
The OP was concerned about IMS and Bore Scoring. Unfortunately in post No. 38 had his 997.2 bit by bore scoring and his warranty company is giving him the run-around.
I'm thinking one possible good option is to buy a ragged out, high mileage 997.1 at a low price and have the engine properly rebuilt.
06-11-2017, 11:41 AM
#42
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The M96 has always been a problem child. RMSs were going out like crazy in the early 2000s. The IMS is a bigger issue than some let on. My dealership just had another IMS failure a couple of weeks ago and silly to think you hear about most of them on the forums.
The vast majority of people I know with 911s have never heard of Rennlist or 6speedonline and don't care about or have time for forums.
I have owned at least 20 911s, perhaps more if count race/cup cars . . ., and owned every normal production turbo model produced except the 991 including 930, 965, 94 3.6T and 993 tt S. I would not purchase a post '06 M96/7 primarily out of concerns about bore scoring and forget about pre-06 M96 . . .
If you got one already, just enjoy the heck out of it and drive it like you stole it. If you are considering one, spend the extra $$$s to get DFI. The DFI may also prove to be a problem child later on, but so far the motor is a significant improvement and worth the extra $$$.
06-12-2017, 03:16 PM
#44
I'm not letting IMS or bore scoring worries ruin my 997.1 experience. Having said that, I warm the car up gently before giving it any revs, I intend to stay on top of oil changes and also get an oil analysis with every oil change.
If I have to get a new engine, I'll do the smart thing and go right to Jake Raby, and then when I get it back enjoy a perfect and bulletproof 997 that I'll never sell
If I have to get a new engine, I'll do the smart thing and go right to Jake Raby, and then when I get it back enjoy a perfect and bulletproof 997 that I'll never sell
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IrishLegend (08-03-2020)
06-12-2017, 03:17 PM
#45
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'm thinking one possible good option is to buy a ragged out, high mileage 997.1 at a low price and have the engine properly rebuilt.