EdwardB

Has anyone had any experience with the Billy Boat centre muffler bypass pipes on the 997.2?

In particular fit, finish, sound, etc.

I noticed they are about 30% less costly than the Sharkwerks equivalent and less than half the price of the Fabspeed X-Pipe but obviously cost isn't everything.

Thanks in advance all

Ed

tuxkilla

Here you go:

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...er-bypass.html

Fit was decent, finish was excellent, and the sound is worth every single penny, especially coupled with a gundo hack.

docdrs

I did this in November and had no issues. It took about 3 hours with most of the time getting the rusted nuts off. Although an improvement you will probably want to do the Gundo ( you have to be able get the cat flange nuts off any ways to remove the Muffler) so you pretty much have to do this first.

Iceter

Just had them delivered on Friday but with the ice storm we had Friday night, I haven't installed them yet. The finish is pretty high quality.

I'll post again after I install them and drive it a few times.

platinum997

Have had them on the car for a few months. No issues.. I feel it's the way to go for the cost.

Welds and fit/finish were fine.

I have them with the fister/gundo mufflers and it sounds great. I little raspy at cold start but mellows out quickly.

Astur

Installed mine about 9 months ago in conjunction with a 2 inch Gundo Hack. Couldn't be happier!!

This fit and finish is excellent with special notice on the flange welds. These are done all around the INSIDE where pipe joins the flange. There are also welds on the outside of the flange but not all the way around. Interesting take but not sure on the reason.

I got mine through JEGS from $573 shipped which compared to SW and others is way more inexpensive. The "others" claim that theirs are better but folks these are just two pieces of bent pipe that parts and labor could not have cost more than $100-$125.

BTW, some SW buyers have complained of vibration/drone at certain RPM ranges not so with mine.

EdwardB

Thanks all. Some great info here and in the forums... Guess I should have searched Billy Boat vs Sharkwerks first.

Seems like everyone is happy with the BB bypass pipes except the poor fit on the GTS.

I don't want the same issue with my GTS so will most likely go for the Sharkwerks.

John@Fabspeed

Hello Ed,

As you said cost isn't everything. There is a reason we use an X-Pipe design versus a crossover. Our X-Pipe that has an opening in the middle (we call it the "talk zone") that promotes something called a scavenging effect, which essentially creates a vacuum that speeds up exhaust flow out of the car. Sure we have made crossovers early on in our history, but over near 25 years of R&D we now exclusively use X-Pipes wherever we can. The flow characteristics are much more consistent and efficient for making power, and the merging of exhaust flow in the "talk zone" in the middle helps even the flow of both banks of cylinders. This creates a smoother, more exotic pitch than a crossover design. We are also unique in that we use an investment cast X rather than two 180degree bends cut and welded together, that way we can maximize the smoothness and consistency of the exhaust on every product we make.

Take a look at this video explanation we did a while ago. This best explains the benefits of our X design over the typical crossover and why it is worth the investment.

If you (or anyone else) is interested in one of our X-Pipes please don't hesitate to reach out to me via PM/email/phone at my details below

Astur

I'm the first to admit that I'm no expert on the dynamics of enhanced exhaust flow and it's relationship with increased performance. However, I do know that the BB pipes cost me $573 shipped and the Fabspeed are $1,100 + shipping... and that my friends is one hell of a difference in cost versus any real or perceived difference in performance between the two.

Having said that and this is probably true for most non-racers and non-purists like myself, I purchased my pipes and did a Gundo Hack in order to counteract the muffled sound of my non-PSE factory setup. I realize that this one versus the other might be the basis for some controversy, so let the fire and brimstone from the pundits begin!

VanSant62

I Installed mine I about 1.5 hrs, did not drop the bumper, just soaked the bolts for a day prior, fit right on and have had no issues, did mine in October I believe.

Dan@SharkWerks

Hi Astur:
First - I've never had complaints about drone from our 997.2 exhausts, and the idle vibration problems were fixed on our design about 5 years ago when we re-designed the bends for better clearance and fitment.

I can't speak for the others, and don't live in Puerto Rico, but here in California, there is no way I could build our exhaust for anywhere close to $125. If I found a place that could build these in California, using American parts and labor, (10-20x units at a time) at that price I would sign up immediately.

We make our products locally so we can oversee fabrication and quality. At the end of the day, we are a small company making what we believe is the best product for the solution. I think there are always cheaper ways to do things.

For example, BBE has a huge facility and manufacturing capability. Are these exhausts even made in the USA? If that doesn't matter to you, does it matter that they probably make a lot more money on each pipe sold than we do, as they make 100s of exhausts for 100s of cars, so they can certainly make it cheaper? If you call them, will someone answer the phone, and will this person have direct experience installing these exhausts on your car? Will they have driven or owned your exact car, and know what issues you'll likely face with other modifications or problems on the car? We bought and drove a 2009 Carrera S for 30k miles to become very familiar with this guide and we documented all we learned for people here:
http://sharkwerks.com/porsche/porsch...09-2012-a.html

http://sharkwerks.com/porsche/997-ca...rt-type-i.html

They also cut some corners that ultimately makes our part cost more. Ours has two very nice laser cut brackets for mounting to the original muffler location, and we've made extra modifications for additional clearance on PSE systems (as mentioned on a few threads, probably why it fits better on GTS models than the BBE). Theirs has no mounting system AFAIK. Could I remove the brackets and reduce the price by another $100? Sure, but I wouldn't. I always discount for Rennlist members if they call in and the price difference isn't as big as it seems when you consider all this.

But there's nothing wrong with competition, and at the end of the day, the SW exhaust will sound very similar to the BBE exhaust. But I just wanted to respond by saying it costs a LOT more than $100 to make this exhaust- magnitudes more. Maybe in China out of something less than 304 and it's assembled by children - I don't know as we don't make parts overseas, but even then I doubt it for that price.

Cheers and glad you enjoy your car, and I agree it sounds especially mean with modified side mufflers

Astur

Dan,

Appreciate your input and opinion but that $100-$125 was not an arbitrary amount. Sometime back there was a post from a gentleman whom I seem to remember had been in the muffler/exhaust business for 30+ years and decided to fabricate his own X-pipes because he found all current similar options totally over priced.

I'm paraphrasing as much as my memory serves me but I seem to remember his materials & labor costs to be the figures mentioned. He even went as far as to say that he was exploring the idea of getting into this business and selling his product at prices that would be more affordable. I hope that some other forum members will also remember this post.

Whatever the case, I don't believe that the BB pipes are made in China as you seem to allude to and to their credit the materials, fit, finish and quality of the welds are all excellent. The fact is that they (BB) sell their product through a retailer (Jegs), where BOTH have price markup structures & profits and BOTH are still capable of selling it to me for $573 including shipping to Puerto Rico.

I also take exception to the above veiled snide and Trumpish comment about where I live and our standard of living. True, based on the standards and affluence of the Great State of California we may be Third-Worldish, but I think that overall you missed my original point.

Anyway, in closing just let me point out that the BB pipes that I bought were NOT made in Puerto Rico but rather purchased from a US company (Jegs) who in turn also purchased them from a US fabricator (BB) and they BOTH made money... and so did I since I saved $325 by not buying your product.

Dan@SharkWerks

I think you misunderstand me, sorry... I'll explain.

I also work with fabricators every day who also have 30+ years experience, and they can't even come close to that price. Maybe in a much cheaper labor market, and using non-US steel. So either I'm getting ripped off big-time (I'll below elaborate on California) or this "gentleman" is blowing smoke to stir up the pot. If he can indeed manufacture them at that price, SIGN ME UP because it would enormously reduce my cost. Maybe he was building these and realized the prices he quoted were very unrealistic in today's prices and decided there were better ways to make money.

I don't know where BBE exhausts are made - they don't say on their site it seems. That's why I'm asking and I'm saying a consumer needs to know why a product costs more or less. I'm not alluding to anything. I'm only saying, if I made mine in China, I could probably charge the same amount of money they do, and make the same profit. But we'd rather support local welders and our local economy, and those willing to work here, so we don't.

I think you missed my overall point. I'm sorry you were offended by my comment and it was certainly not "snide".

I've never been to Puerto Rico. I am not saying anything bad, whatsoever, about the living conditions and standards compared to California.

What I am saying is independently (regardless of Puerto Rico, Phoenix, Seattle, or wherever a part may be manufactured), that California is an expensive place to do business. Labor costs double here what it costs in other places. Leasing an office or warehouse might cost 10x per square foot what it costs in the midwest. I could move to Texas and save money on labor and land. I wouldn't need to pay welders to live in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the country.

It's unfortunate it costs what it does to do business here, however, we do work here because it's a Porsche mecca. Without this environment, we never would've designed this part in the first place (and most likely, BBE wouldn't have made a very similar looking product years later). We had access to the first car in the region since so many Porsches are sold here, and we've had the opportunity to further test probably 100 of Porsches with this exhaust or others on their Carrera/S locally.

This wasn't saying anything bad about PR. Just pointing out we don't make them there. We make them HERE.

I am glad you saved money and I am glad you like the exhaust you ended up with. But let me explain why I'd be defensive about this. You said our exhausts cost $100 to make and it's just simply not true. Not even close. And our exhaust looks exactly like the BBE one (minus a few shortcuts they took) even though ours came first by many years. Sure it's not an incredible design, but it's an original idea. We leased a $100,000 car to develop that part, as simple as it looks. We spent a lot of time with fitment and sound.

Then these guys come, possibly make it overseas or at least using their big fabrication capacity, and sell it for a lot less money. Then they further discount them and distribute through JEGS (basically the Amazon/Wal Mart of car parts). We have 3 people working here. We just can't compete on this front and it's offensive to have someone come on here and tell the world we are making so much money that we do on a sale, especially considering these circumstances. You found the lowest price on their exhaust and are comparing it to the highest price you found for mine. Maybe if you had called, I would've given you a discount closing a lot of that gap, even though I'd make less money on the sale than BBE would at that price.

If you don't want to pay extra for the small business and extra features then don't. It's your choice. But if you come on here and say they cost us $100, or our exhausts cause drone etc., you better believe I'll be ready to reply.

Iceter

As far as I know, you chose to set up shop in California. Just know that if you willingly establish a manufacturing facility in a place with some of the highest taxes, the most burdensome regulations, exceptionally high real estate prices, a very high cost of living, and that is union-friendly, your complaints about not being cost competitive will fall on a lot of deaf ears.

I have seen your products. They are high quality and are well regarded in the market. You can own that. You're better off selling the premium aspect of your product, the R&D you put into it and the years of real-world, over the road testing you've got. Don't bring your overhead into the equation, no one is going to care about that.

Iceter

On a completely different note, I am interested in how you decided to go with a crossover style.

It is my understanding that an x-pipe or other type of crossover in a dual-path exhaust only provides benefits when it is placed in a very specific location in the flow path, and that position is not only different for every type of engine/exhaust configuration, but also changes within that setup as RPM and other parameters vary. I have been led to believe that placing a crossover is as much art as science.

Also, you eschew the more direct path of BBE's crossed tubes for a 180 degree bend on both sides, to enable you to have the crossover tube. Did you test other configurations before settling on your current design?

I am genuinely curious about how your design process went and what led you to the current setup.