Targa roof closes very slowly, seems to hesitate
08-21-2017, 07:41 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I would not think the motor power is an issue (unless the motor is defective).
Maybe its an alignment or loose screw/bolt issue?
The roof has a manual crank to close it - you could try using the manual crank to see if you also find increased resistance as you hand-crank.. that would suggest alignment problem - thought you would need to know what it feels like when one hand cranks a roof that is working correctly to have a baseline to compare to.
Maybe its an alignment or loose screw/bolt issue?
The roof has a manual crank to close it - you could try using the manual crank to see if you also find increased resistance as you hand-crank.. that would suggest alignment problem - thought you would need to know what it feels like when one hand cranks a roof that is working correctly to have a baseline to compare to.
Unfortunately out of town rest of the week, then Autocross on Saturday and then taking son to college so will have to wait another week or so to test
08-23-2017, 11:42 AM
#19
Thanks Patriot. Never noticed that in manual.
We are back to school and activity mode and auto crosses don't make the cut! Not to mention the car needs new shoes so wouldn't do anything of that sort until those are done at least. Good luck if you are heading down, and represent the garage well!
We are back to school and activity mode and auto crosses don't make the cut! Not to mention the car needs new shoes so wouldn't do anything of that sort until those are done at least. Good luck if you are heading down, and represent the garage well!
09-02-2017, 01:00 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Me and John with his green (forget the name but it is an amazing olive color) represented the Targas well
Hi TargaFirst...did as you suggested. Didn't find anything
Hi Minok - finally got around this morning to trying this. I can't get the hand cranks to budge at all. I am afraid that I will break them. I noticed that my top opens much easier than closing so I thought I could see if the hand cranks would let me open the roof, no luck there either.
I have noticed that the sides of the roof don't move in perfect unison. For example, when I open the roof from a fully closed position the passenger side seems to move a split second before the driver side. Maybe that is enough to get the sides out of alignment to make closing it difficult for the motors.
Minok, when you say loose screw/bolt are you thinking of one in particular that I can check?
Have you checked the track for debris and/or other blockages? Sometimes debris gets UNDER the bottom sliders and that creates hesitation.
For the record I always close mine- it reduces the chance of track debris, and if it malfunctions at least its closed.
Once or twice I've had to re-activate the close toggle to ensure the roof was seated properly- on both occasions a thorough inspection revealed small spruce needles in the track.
For the record I always close mine- it reduces the chance of track debris, and if it malfunctions at least its closed.
Once or twice I've had to re-activate the close toggle to ensure the roof was seated properly- on both occasions a thorough inspection revealed small spruce needles in the track.
I would not think the motor power is an issue (unless the motor is defective).
Maybe its an alignment or loose screw/bolt issue?
The roof has a manual crank to close it - you could try using the manual crank to see if you also find increased resistance as you hand-crank.. that would suggest alignment problem - thought you would need to know what it feels like when one hand cranks a roof that is working correctly to have a baseline to compare to.
Maybe its an alignment or loose screw/bolt issue?
The roof has a manual crank to close it - you could try using the manual crank to see if you also find increased resistance as you hand-crank.. that would suggest alignment problem - thought you would need to know what it feels like when one hand cranks a roof that is working correctly to have a baseline to compare to.
I have noticed that the sides of the roof don't move in perfect unison. For example, when I open the roof from a fully closed position the passenger side seems to move a split second before the driver side. Maybe that is enough to get the sides out of alignment to make closing it difficult for the motors.
Minok, when you say loose screw/bolt are you thinking of one in particular that I can check?
02-24-2018, 11:59 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi everyone - I wanted to post a quick update on this for other Targa owners.
Last fall I fiddled around myself a bit with the top but after tracking down the shop manual and what was required I gave up and took it to the local Indy garage that I use (ForeignExchange South). That was probably in December. They had opened up a new facility with lots of room and could keep the car inside while they worked on it.
Here was the diagnosis "During inspection found sunroof electric drive motors were not moving in time together and causing glass panel to bind. The guide tubes were also worn and causing glass panel to drag". In talking to the shop owner, we decided to just replace everything since there is so much labor in getting the roof off.
Last night picked my car up. I had seen online nightmare stories of repair costs over $5000...mine came in less, though still not an inexpensive repair. Labor was about $1400 and parts about $1700. All in with tax was $3339. A bit painful but I love having a Targa and the whole point of having the Targa is to be able to open the roof...so I am just chalking it up to cost of ownership.
A couple other notes:
The roof opening and closing is now a completely different experience - smooth and much faster than before.
In hindsight, my roof had been giving me problems probably from day one of getting her back in 2015...slow, inconsistent movement, etc. Could I have done something then from a maintenance standpoint to have prevented the replacement of the motors, etc.? I am not sure but I would suggest if your Targa is starting to act up, have it checked out just in case.
Thanks to all of the Rennlisters that provided thoughts / guidance.
Last fall I fiddled around myself a bit with the top but after tracking down the shop manual and what was required I gave up and took it to the local Indy garage that I use (ForeignExchange South). That was probably in December. They had opened up a new facility with lots of room and could keep the car inside while they worked on it.
Here was the diagnosis "During inspection found sunroof electric drive motors were not moving in time together and causing glass panel to bind. The guide tubes were also worn and causing glass panel to drag". In talking to the shop owner, we decided to just replace everything since there is so much labor in getting the roof off.
Last night picked my car up. I had seen online nightmare stories of repair costs over $5000...mine came in less, though still not an inexpensive repair. Labor was about $1400 and parts about $1700. All in with tax was $3339. A bit painful but I love having a Targa and the whole point of having the Targa is to be able to open the roof...so I am just chalking it up to cost of ownership.
A couple other notes:
The roof opening and closing is now a completely different experience - smooth and much faster than before.
In hindsight, my roof had been giving me problems probably from day one of getting her back in 2015...slow, inconsistent movement, etc. Could I have done something then from a maintenance standpoint to have prevented the replacement of the motors, etc.? I am not sure but I would suggest if your Targa is starting to act up, have it checked out just in case.
Thanks to all of the Rennlisters that provided thoughts / guidance.
02-24-2018, 12:23 PM
#23
Glad to hear you finally got it fixed. Bummer about the price, but with Porsche, you got to pay to play.
My sunscreen motor went bad a few months ago, and I went to the dealer to fix. Cost about $900 to fix, which wasn’t bad. Luckily, I haven’t had any issues with the actual roof.
The Targas are still the most underrated 997’s out there.
My sunscreen motor went bad a few months ago, and I went to the dealer to fix. Cost about $900 to fix, which wasn’t bad. Luckily, I haven’t had any issues with the actual roof.
The Targas are still the most underrated 997’s out there.
10-23-2018, 02:43 PM
#25
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Any of you Targa owners have a jamming roof, I solved this problem (2003 911 Targa) at no cost:::> I had same issues as all above - roof opened and closed slowly. Over the summer the situation worsened such that I had to apply manual force to get the roof to move at all. I resolved the issue with proper tools (screw drivers, correct Hex and Star bits, teflon drylube) and a few hours effort.
First, after reading all the notices I realized the issue is not at all with the rails - just keep these clean (though I did put some teflon dry lube down but with no improvement). The solution lies in lubricating the cables which are only accessible by removing the motors. One poster suggest drilling a hole in the cable conduit which seemed drastic and I am glad I figured out how to avoid that. Do NOT use a wet lube it will create a disaster. I read that Porsche uses Krytox which is a very expensive but long lasting dry lubricant but is not an aerosol so I didn't see how I could apply. I used an off-the-shelf aerosol teflon dry lube which is working just fine. Also, my roof was so badly jammed that the manual tools were about to break trying to use them to move the roof.
Second, it is rather difficult to remove both motors because one bolt is hidden by the bracketry for the rear hatch latch. Also precaution must be taken to put all back together in exact alignment of roof location because the motor controller counts exact rotations of the motors to precisely open and close the roof. But, the roof cannot be moved at all unless you use the motors to open the hatch 4-5 inches....but the roof won't open if the hatch is open....Catch 22.
So, trick is to first open roof about 5 inches. Remove negative ground from battery at this point and measure roof opening exactly within 0.5mm as you will be moving the roof and MUST return to exact location or else you get to also figure out how to reprogram the controller which I did not have to do.
Now, with roof open 5 inches or so, go to the hatch bracket and notice a curved slot which is the emergency release for the hatch and release the hatch then remove the bracket again. Now you have an open roof and can remove the motors (two bolts for each motor with one bolt already removed). I actually did it a more difficult way and removed the latch bracket, removed the hidden motor bolt, replaced the bracket and then opened the roof. Later I noticed the emergency hatch release button.
Finally, notice that the motors have a gear that fits into a hole in which lies the cable which has threading that allows the motor to move the cable. Spray a small amount of lube into each hole getting as much of the cable as possible. Then move the roof a couple of inches more open. Note: I did this my self and the first 20 inches were very difficult to move but I got it done.
Continue moving 2-3 inches, spraying in to the holes until the roof is completely open.
My experience is the last 10 inches the roof moved easily and then I could easily open and close the roof by hand - 10 times easier than at the start.
I sprayed some lube in a few more times for good measure, cycled the roof about 10 times to ensure best spreading of the lube before it dried completely then reassembled.
To reassemble return the roof to the exact location as original then replace the motors and bolt in. Then replace the hatch bracketry. Now be careful as either the hatch or roof should be closed at anytime but that is now not the case. I believe I reattached the battery cable, then first shut the hatch but the motor would not engage to fully lock it but I was then able to shut the roof. Then I re-opend the hatch using the switch and it then shut correctly.
Finally test the roof for proper travel. If there is an issue with alignment try to close all the way and I read you can hold the close button for 10 seconds to retrain the controller (but I have not verified this).
I went out and bought a rear disc brake set for my project 74 Super VW with the saved money.
First, after reading all the notices I realized the issue is not at all with the rails - just keep these clean (though I did put some teflon dry lube down but with no improvement). The solution lies in lubricating the cables which are only accessible by removing the motors. One poster suggest drilling a hole in the cable conduit which seemed drastic and I am glad I figured out how to avoid that. Do NOT use a wet lube it will create a disaster. I read that Porsche uses Krytox which is a very expensive but long lasting dry lubricant but is not an aerosol so I didn't see how I could apply. I used an off-the-shelf aerosol teflon dry lube which is working just fine. Also, my roof was so badly jammed that the manual tools were about to break trying to use them to move the roof.
Second, it is rather difficult to remove both motors because one bolt is hidden by the bracketry for the rear hatch latch. Also precaution must be taken to put all back together in exact alignment of roof location because the motor controller counts exact rotations of the motors to precisely open and close the roof. But, the roof cannot be moved at all unless you use the motors to open the hatch 4-5 inches....but the roof won't open if the hatch is open....Catch 22.
So, trick is to first open roof about 5 inches. Remove negative ground from battery at this point and measure roof opening exactly within 0.5mm as you will be moving the roof and MUST return to exact location or else you get to also figure out how to reprogram the controller which I did not have to do.
Now, with roof open 5 inches or so, go to the hatch bracket and notice a curved slot which is the emergency release for the hatch and release the hatch then remove the bracket again. Now you have an open roof and can remove the motors (two bolts for each motor with one bolt already removed). I actually did it a more difficult way and removed the latch bracket, removed the hidden motor bolt, replaced the bracket and then opened the roof. Later I noticed the emergency hatch release button.
Finally, notice that the motors have a gear that fits into a hole in which lies the cable which has threading that allows the motor to move the cable. Spray a small amount of lube into each hole getting as much of the cable as possible. Then move the roof a couple of inches more open. Note: I did this my self and the first 20 inches were very difficult to move but I got it done.
Continue moving 2-3 inches, spraying in to the holes until the roof is completely open.
My experience is the last 10 inches the roof moved easily and then I could easily open and close the roof by hand - 10 times easier than at the start.
I sprayed some lube in a few more times for good measure, cycled the roof about 10 times to ensure best spreading of the lube before it dried completely then reassembled.
To reassemble return the roof to the exact location as original then replace the motors and bolt in. Then replace the hatch bracketry. Now be careful as either the hatch or roof should be closed at anytime but that is now not the case. I believe I reattached the battery cable, then first shut the hatch but the motor would not engage to fully lock it but I was then able to shut the roof. Then I re-opend the hatch using the switch and it then shut correctly.
Finally test the roof for proper travel. If there is an issue with alignment try to close all the way and I read you can hold the close button for 10 seconds to retrain the controller (but I have not verified this).
I went out and bought a rear disc brake set for my project 74 Super VW with the saved money.
