997.1 C2S to 2016 Panamera (couple days with a loaner)
09-13-2016, 02:39 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
997.1 C2S to 2016 Panamera (couple days with a loaner)
So I took my car in for service and got a new base Panamera loaner. I believe with options it's around $90K MSRP.
Here are my impressions. Again, all of these comments are relative to the $90K price:
Cons:
1. Car just isn't that fast. Its only got a 310 hp V6, naturally aspirated with DFI. This is similar to a Subaru STI, and it feels slower than an older BMW 335i since its not turbo. The Panamera is also pretty heavy.
2. Steering is very light and lacks feel. This is my first time driving with electric power steering, and I'm not impressed.
3. Steering wheel material feels cheap and slick, possibly vinyl.
4. The vehicle is really, really big. Its as big as my minivan (seriously). It barely fits in the garage, and even the collision avoidance system didn't want to let me squeeze it in there (although, it fit fine). Better have a huge garage, or the car is going to slam on the brakes and scream bloody murder every time you try to park it at home.
5. Way too many buttons and ***** all over the interior. There's rows of buttons on the left, rows on the ceiling, multiple rows on the center console around the shifter, more rows around the PCM. Buttons are better than pure menu navigation, but I think they went a little crazy here.
6. $90K and no bluetooth input option on the PCM? Is this for real? Honda Civics have had that standard for a while.
7. Comes with the silly Porsche steering wheel shifter buttons, not regular flappy paddles. I thought they fixed this back in 2010?
8. While you can corner incredibly fast, the suspension is too bouncy. There is body roll and it rocks back and forth when launching or braking. Probably a Panamera S with PASM would fix most of this, I'm guessing.
9. The brakes are way too touchy. They tune it this way to make it feel artificially like it has some incredible brakes, but its really just gives you poor control. I wouldn't want to drive this around a track, or even a spirited mountain road. There is no finesse.
10. PDK shift is a little too smooth. Is there an option to enable some artificial jerkyness so that you actually know when it shifts?
11. Exhaust doesn't sound great. 997.1 C2S sounds much better. Kind of a disappointment since the newer 991 sounds nice.
Pros:
1. Fit and finish is great, and even the dash vinyl looks and feels almost like leather. Wheels look really nice.
2. Lots of room in the front engine compartment to work. Welcome change from a 911 or Cayman/Boxster.
3. The radar collision avoidance system and blind spot warning work really well (exception noted above for parking in a garage). I like how these help you avoid scratching the car during low speed parking maneuvers.
4. Hatchback gives you some great storage space.
5. Ride is comfortable and cabin is reasonably quiet. Not anechoic chamber quiet like a Lexus, though.
6. Lot of room in the back for a sporty sedan.
7. PDK does work well in manual or auto mode, not withstanding the prior comments.
Final Thoughts:
Honestly, I couldn't drop this much money on a car with only a 310 hp NA engine. It would be embarrassing to get routinely beaten routinely by Honda Accords, which weight less. Also, unless you get the Panamera S with PASM and dynamic engine/chassis control, it just doesn't handle that sporty either. Now you are talking BMW M5 money, which compares to a Panamera Turbo. But the Panamera Turbo is way more money. So at the price point Porsche is asking, I don't get this vehicle.
Here are my impressions. Again, all of these comments are relative to the $90K price:
Cons:
1. Car just isn't that fast. Its only got a 310 hp V6, naturally aspirated with DFI. This is similar to a Subaru STI, and it feels slower than an older BMW 335i since its not turbo. The Panamera is also pretty heavy.
2. Steering is very light and lacks feel. This is my first time driving with electric power steering, and I'm not impressed.
3. Steering wheel material feels cheap and slick, possibly vinyl.
4. The vehicle is really, really big. Its as big as my minivan (seriously). It barely fits in the garage, and even the collision avoidance system didn't want to let me squeeze it in there (although, it fit fine). Better have a huge garage, or the car is going to slam on the brakes and scream bloody murder every time you try to park it at home.
5. Way too many buttons and ***** all over the interior. There's rows of buttons on the left, rows on the ceiling, multiple rows on the center console around the shifter, more rows around the PCM. Buttons are better than pure menu navigation, but I think they went a little crazy here.
6. $90K and no bluetooth input option on the PCM? Is this for real? Honda Civics have had that standard for a while.
7. Comes with the silly Porsche steering wheel shifter buttons, not regular flappy paddles. I thought they fixed this back in 2010?
8. While you can corner incredibly fast, the suspension is too bouncy. There is body roll and it rocks back and forth when launching or braking. Probably a Panamera S with PASM would fix most of this, I'm guessing.
9. The brakes are way too touchy. They tune it this way to make it feel artificially like it has some incredible brakes, but its really just gives you poor control. I wouldn't want to drive this around a track, or even a spirited mountain road. There is no finesse.
10. PDK shift is a little too smooth. Is there an option to enable some artificial jerkyness so that you actually know when it shifts?
11. Exhaust doesn't sound great. 997.1 C2S sounds much better. Kind of a disappointment since the newer 991 sounds nice.
Pros:
1. Fit and finish is great, and even the dash vinyl looks and feels almost like leather. Wheels look really nice.
2. Lots of room in the front engine compartment to work. Welcome change from a 911 or Cayman/Boxster.
3. The radar collision avoidance system and blind spot warning work really well (exception noted above for parking in a garage). I like how these help you avoid scratching the car during low speed parking maneuvers.
4. Hatchback gives you some great storage space.
5. Ride is comfortable and cabin is reasonably quiet. Not anechoic chamber quiet like a Lexus, though.
6. Lot of room in the back for a sporty sedan.
7. PDK does work well in manual or auto mode, not withstanding the prior comments.
Final Thoughts:
Honestly, I couldn't drop this much money on a car with only a 310 hp NA engine. It would be embarrassing to get routinely beaten routinely by Honda Accords, which weight less. Also, unless you get the Panamera S with PASM and dynamic engine/chassis control, it just doesn't handle that sporty either. Now you are talking BMW M5 money, which compares to a Panamera Turbo. But the Panamera Turbo is way more money. So at the price point Porsche is asking, I don't get this vehicle.
09-13-2016, 11:10 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Interesting review, thanks for taking the time to put it down.
09-14-2016, 08:21 AM
#3
Sir Thomas Lord of All Mets Fans
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I got a Panny 4 loaner once. Echo many of your thoughts especially all those confounded buttons. It'd be nice for comfy road trips, and presumably the V6 would get reasonable gas mileage. But, I think I'd get a 991 gen car if I was looking for a lux Porsche cruiser...T
09-14-2016, 10:07 AM
#4
I fully agree with what you're saying. I got a 2015 model brand new panamera loaner back in late 14 when I was taking my car in for service and felt the same way. Usually I'm always intrigued by new cars, looks and gadgets, but it was the first time I was hoping to get back into my 911. Strange but awesome feel as it was the first time I felt the car I had was better for me than the brand new one with new car smell, tech loaded, etc.
I drove the Panamera for almost 3 days, and yes it felt like everything you said. Acceleration felt slow, cabin was bit tight for a car that size (especially in the back, and I'm 5'10 160lbs), and although decent, as you mentioned not as quiet as a true luxury sedan (S class or LS). I felt it was kind of stuck in the middle. Not as sporty as I wanted it to be, but not as luxurious/quiet as I would expect for a luxury full size sedan. Maybe it's also due to my vision. For me a sports car needs to be sporty, and a luxury car needs to be all luxurious. Panamera might still be the best if anybody can only have one car that does it all, but for me personally it doesn't make sense. My ideal combo will still be a 911 and a Lexus LS for that matter.
.
I drove the Panamera for almost 3 days, and yes it felt like everything you said. Acceleration felt slow, cabin was bit tight for a car that size (especially in the back, and I'm 5'10 160lbs), and although decent, as you mentioned not as quiet as a true luxury sedan (S class or LS). I felt it was kind of stuck in the middle. Not as sporty as I wanted it to be, but not as luxurious/quiet as I would expect for a luxury full size sedan. Maybe it's also due to my vision. For me a sports car needs to be sporty, and a luxury car needs to be all luxurious. Panamera might still be the best if anybody can only have one car that does it all, but for me personally it doesn't make sense. My ideal combo will still be a 911 and a Lexus LS for that matter.
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09-14-2016, 10:21 AM
#5
Pro
Thanks, Volkswagon.
09-14-2016, 10:40 AM
#6
Sounds like a perfectly fine vehicle for a boring daily commute or a long road trip to visit out of town friends or family. That said, I can't imagine paying anywhere close to $90K for that experience, and I actually think that it is made by Porsche (as opposed to say Lexus) hurts it, because people expect a lot more sporting nature when it comes to the the brand.
I don't get the Panamera... for it to be that big and only have seating for 4 is baffling to me, notwithstanding the cons listed by the OP above. I also don't get the Macan, which so many people seem to love. It's far too small to be really useful as something like a family vehicle (backseats are cramped) yet it is too tall and SUV-like to have the feel of a sports car. But I trust Porsche AG knows what it is doing far more than I do.
I don't get the Panamera... for it to be that big and only have seating for 4 is baffling to me, notwithstanding the cons listed by the OP above. I also don't get the Macan, which so many people seem to love. It's far too small to be really useful as something like a family vehicle (backseats are cramped) yet it is too tall and SUV-like to have the feel of a sports car. But I trust Porsche AG knows what it is doing far more than I do.
09-14-2016, 12:10 PM
#7
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
That said, I can't imagine paying anywhere close to $90K for that experience, and I actually think that it is made by Porsche (as opposed to say Lexus) hurts it, because people expect a lot more sporting nature when it comes to the the brand.
I don't get the Panamera... for it to be that big and only have seating for 4 is baffling to me, notwithstanding the cons listed by the OP above.
I don't get the Panamera... for it to be that big and only have seating for 4 is baffling to me, notwithstanding the cons listed by the OP above.
Regarding expectations from the brand...... I think how we, sports car enthusiasts, view the brand is very different from all others. I think others view Porsche brand as prestigious and sport, but I don't think sport means the same to them as us. I have posted before that most want the fantasy of a race car but have no clue what one feels like to drive.... and would hate it. They want a bit of a growl...... grippy brakes..... and acceleration a bit better than the family SUV. But most of all, the common buyer wants others to think of them as sporty and wealthy.
An old marketing story I read a long time ago was something like back when consumerism was taking hold in the USA, I think Ford? and GM did some market analysis... Ford asked customers what they wanted and came up with good gas mileage, easy to get inout of, cargo room..... GM asked what kind of car would your neighbor drive... got totally different answer of "lotsa chrome" big, show off..... etc. Guess who outsold who?
Porsche sells fantasy.
Regarding the big car short on seating... I think that market of older folks where kids are grown... at least they aren't hauling around a brood of seat kickin' demanding ..... just doesn;t matter to them. I remember driving a friend's Jaguar, a Van Den Plas....... beautiful interior but such a tiny cockpit.
Porsche is selling fantasy and going for volume. I am willing to bet they are reading about marketing excellence and the engineering books are getting a bit dusty.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
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09-14-2016, 12:18 PM
#8
Interesting comments......
Regarding expectations from the brand...... I think how we, sports car enthusiasts, view the brand is very different from all others. I think others view Porsche brand as prestigious and sport, but I don't think sport means the same to them as us. I have posted before that most want the fantasy of a race car but have no clue what one feels like to drive.... and would hate it. They want a bit of a growl...... grippy brakes..... and acceleration a bit better than the family SUV. But most of all, the common buyer wants others to think of them as sporty and wealthy.
An old marketing story I read a long time ago was something like back when consumerism was taking hold in the USA, I think Ford? and GM did some market analysis... Ford asked customers what they wanted and came up with good gas mileage, easy to get inout of, cargo room..... GM asked what kind of car would your neighbor drive... got totally different answer of "lotsa chrome" big, show off..... etc. Guess who outsold who?
Porsche sells fantasy.
Regarding the big car short on seating... I think that market of older folks where kids are grown... at least they aren't hauling around a brood of seat kickin' demanding ..... just doesn;t matter to them. I remember driving a friend's Jaguar, a Van Den Plas....... beautiful interior but such a tiny cockpit.
Porsche is selling fantasy and going for volume.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Regarding expectations from the brand...... I think how we, sports car enthusiasts, view the brand is very different from all others. I think others view Porsche brand as prestigious and sport, but I don't think sport means the same to them as us. I have posted before that most want the fantasy of a race car but have no clue what one feels like to drive.... and would hate it. They want a bit of a growl...... grippy brakes..... and acceleration a bit better than the family SUV. But most of all, the common buyer wants others to think of them as sporty and wealthy.
An old marketing story I read a long time ago was something like back when consumerism was taking hold in the USA, I think Ford? and GM did some market analysis... Ford asked customers what they wanted and came up with good gas mileage, easy to get inout of, cargo room..... GM asked what kind of car would your neighbor drive... got totally different answer of "lotsa chrome" big, show off..... etc. Guess who outsold who?
Porsche sells fantasy.
Regarding the big car short on seating... I think that market of older folks where kids are grown... at least they aren't hauling around a brood of seat kickin' demanding ..... just doesn;t matter to them. I remember driving a friend's Jaguar, a Van Den Plas....... beautiful interior but such a tiny cockpit.
Porsche is selling fantasy and going for volume.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
The Macan for example is selling lot hotcakes, as is pretty much every other brand's small SUV. One of my coworkers has the Mercedes version of small SUV and we've piled four of us in it on a few occasions to go out to lunch. The rear is cramped, the roofline is low and the car feels tight for what is an SUV. If I am going to buy an SUV, I want it to be bigger. But he likes it and those things sell. I would state that the Macan is probably the best example in that category though.
The Panamera is definitely not meant to be a family hauler. I am sure it provides a nice highway ride for 4 adults. I am not speaking for anyone but myself, but personally, I don't get the vehicle. I have a couple of friends that own one... one has no kids and the other has just one kid. But they are both professionals in their 40s, married, and not really "sports car" kind of guys, so your point is well taken. They are the target market I am guessing, and not us car enthusiasts.
When I'm not in my car, I'm driving a lifted Toyota Tundra. Go figure.