997.1 how to drive an automatic?
08-04-2016, 03:00 PM
#1
997.1 how to drive an automatic?
Hi all,
So after this happened, will start search for next 997.1
Been driving manual transmission Porsches for over 15 years (boxster, 996, 997.1) as DD. I also sometimes drive automatic non-Porsche cars (benz, bmw, lexus, toyota) on weekend when wife doesn't want to drive her car.
After test driving a 2006 997.1 automatic (non-S), it was a strange feeling and my left foot wants to step on the non-existent clutch pedal. I also found it hard to make the car do things (less control). During acceleration, I usually shift at 6500-7000rpm and driving the automatic, it cannot seem to do that. I only had a little bit of time getting acclimated to how it works so it was a pretty bad drive.
I would like to get another manual 997.1 but have been trying to see if automatic may be better, specially during traffic situations (maybe 20% of my drive).
Thanks!
So after this happened, will start search for next 997.1
Been driving manual transmission Porsches for over 15 years (boxster, 996, 997.1) as DD. I also sometimes drive automatic non-Porsche cars (benz, bmw, lexus, toyota) on weekend when wife doesn't want to drive her car.
After test driving a 2006 997.1 automatic (non-S), it was a strange feeling and my left foot wants to step on the non-existent clutch pedal. I also found it hard to make the car do things (less control). During acceleration, I usually shift at 6500-7000rpm and driving the automatic, it cannot seem to do that. I only had a little bit of time getting acclimated to how it works so it was a pretty bad drive.
I would like to get another manual 997.1 but have been trying to see if automatic may be better, specially during traffic situations (maybe 20% of my drive).
- Has anybody gone from manual to automatic?
- Is there anything specific I should be looking for like PDK (not sure if this available on 997.1 which is my price range)?
- How do make an automatic behave like a manual transmission where you can control the shifting better?
- Do I need to change my expectation level?
Thanks!
08-04-2016, 03:27 PM
#2
how fast are you driving if your shifting at 7k?
PDK is highly responsive and will allow you to shift basically wherever you would like, tiptronic also when in manual mode lets you climb the rev's up. If you really mash on the pedal in full auto mode it will also jump up to higher ranges. Spend a bit more time, if your really into Manual most agree PDK is closer to this feel.
PDK is highly responsive and will allow you to shift basically wherever you would like, tiptronic also when in manual mode lets you climb the rev's up. If you really mash on the pedal in full auto mode it will also jump up to higher ranges. Spend a bit more time, if your really into Manual most agree PDK is closer to this feel.
08-04-2016, 03:36 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
If you drive an automatic, you don't shift, you merely lock gears out from the computer's selection. If you're in "2", you're telling the computer that is the highest gear you are allowing. It will decide to be in 1 or 2.
For performance difference, the traditional auto vs a PDK auto is immense.
In old automatics, like Tiptronic, the engine is spinning fluid, mostly, and through hydraulic pressure, things turn and the drive shaft is ultimately turned. Hence the term 'slush box'. It's slush because nothing is really connected, except fluid/pressure. You come to a stop, nothing really decouples (lock up torque converters aside)... the fluid just isn't spinning hard enough to build pressure to move anything. Slush box. Not like a manual transmission mechanically.
In a PDK, it's heart is a manual transmission, with a clutch for the even gears and one for the odd gears, so things happen fast (thanks computers) and the moving parts are connected, just like an old manual. To come to a stop, to shift, to accelerate, the computer has to work the clutch (separate moving parts), just as you would do in a manual. It's an... automated manual.... you lost the clutch pedal... and when you shift the lever/button/paddles/whatever, you're making a suggestion to the computer, which reacts with a decision in a milisecond.
Since you know what you're doing, you can use the PDK like a manual minus the clutch pedal. I am sure that 99% of the time, the computer will approve your suggestions and you will feel as if you're shifting. It's that fast. BUT... it's got your back, because you can't blow a shift or shift down to a wrong gear and over rev (destroy) your engine.
You could enjoy life with a PDK or many dual-clutch gearboxes working and acting like they are just a manual minus the clutch pedal.
For an old slush box? Meh... its perfectly ok to row the gears yourself, but will feel sluggish, disconnected and the actual mechanical actions are completely unlike a manual or automated manual (PDK).
I go between a dual-clutch gearbox (Audi DSG similar to PDK) and rowing a true manual trans, and each has pros/cons. I 'shift' the Audi about 90% of the time, and shift at a higher RPM or can see things like hils, traffic and other scenarios where I leave it in a lower gear, rather than let it shift and hunt up/down gears, since it can't know what is ahead or what my plans are. --just an example. I have a manual in the 997 for 'engagement', but there are days I wish I could step up to a PDK (yes, up). I have another manual for getting my clutch leg some work.
.
.
For performance difference, the traditional auto vs a PDK auto is immense.
In old automatics, like Tiptronic, the engine is spinning fluid, mostly, and through hydraulic pressure, things turn and the drive shaft is ultimately turned. Hence the term 'slush box'. It's slush because nothing is really connected, except fluid/pressure. You come to a stop, nothing really decouples (lock up torque converters aside)... the fluid just isn't spinning hard enough to build pressure to move anything. Slush box. Not like a manual transmission mechanically.
In a PDK, it's heart is a manual transmission, with a clutch for the even gears and one for the odd gears, so things happen fast (thanks computers) and the moving parts are connected, just like an old manual. To come to a stop, to shift, to accelerate, the computer has to work the clutch (separate moving parts), just as you would do in a manual. It's an... automated manual.... you lost the clutch pedal... and when you shift the lever/button/paddles/whatever, you're making a suggestion to the computer, which reacts with a decision in a milisecond.
Since you know what you're doing, you can use the PDK like a manual minus the clutch pedal. I am sure that 99% of the time, the computer will approve your suggestions and you will feel as if you're shifting. It's that fast. BUT... it's got your back, because you can't blow a shift or shift down to a wrong gear and over rev (destroy) your engine.
You could enjoy life with a PDK or many dual-clutch gearboxes working and acting like they are just a manual minus the clutch pedal.
For an old slush box? Meh... its perfectly ok to row the gears yourself, but will feel sluggish, disconnected and the actual mechanical actions are completely unlike a manual or automated manual (PDK).
I go between a dual-clutch gearbox (Audi DSG similar to PDK) and rowing a true manual trans, and each has pros/cons. I 'shift' the Audi about 90% of the time, and shift at a higher RPM or can see things like hils, traffic and other scenarios where I leave it in a lower gear, rather than let it shift and hunt up/down gears, since it can't know what is ahead or what my plans are. --just an example. I have a manual in the 997 for 'engagement', but there are days I wish I could step up to a PDK (yes, up). I have another manual for getting my clutch leg some work.
.
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Last edited by Philster; 08-04-2016 at 06:22 PM.
08-04-2016, 04:30 PM
#4
I wouldn't care if it was a Tip or a PDK because if I owned it I'd drive it as an automatic. But if I was going to use it as a manual I would definitely get a PDK, it's a world of difference. That said, I would never buy a 911 without a 3-pedal manual. So if you like it, go for it. It's not like there's a shortage of them out there.
08-04-2016, 05:33 PM
#5
I wouldn't care if it was a Tip or a PDK because if I owned it I'd drive it as an automatic. But if I was going to use it as a manual I would definitely get a PDK, it's a world of difference. That said, I would never buy a 911 without a 3-pedal manual. So if you like it, go for it. It's not like there's a shortage of them out there.
08-05-2016, 02:56 AM
#6
Ok, so it seems like there are really 2 "automatic transmissions" in a 997.1? The (1) "standard" automatic and the (2) one with a PDK which is an "option" (based on the upgrade comment above). The one I test drove most likely did not have the PDK option or I did not know how to use it (is that possible).
So, before even considering an automatic, I need to be looking for the PDK option. Otherwise, it would be best to stick with a manual.
How would I know if a car has the PDK if not explicitly mentioned? Look for pictures of the steering wheel with paddles vs no paddles?
So, before even considering an automatic, I need to be looking for the PDK option. Otherwise, it would be best to stick with a manual.
How would I know if a car has the PDK if not explicitly mentioned? Look for pictures of the steering wheel with paddles vs no paddles?
08-05-2016, 03:32 AM
#7
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Ok, so it seems like there are really 2 "automatic transmissions" in a 997.1? The (1) "standard" automatic and the (2) one with a PDK which is an "option" (based on the upgrade comment above). The one I test drove most likely did not have the PDK option or I did not know how to use it (is that possible).
So, before even considering an automatic, I need to be looking for the PDK option. Otherwise, it would be best to stick with a manual.
How would I know if a car has the PDK if not explicitly mentioned? Look for pictures of the steering wheel with paddles vs no paddles?
So, before even considering an automatic, I need to be looking for the PDK option. Otherwise, it would be best to stick with a manual.
How would I know if a car has the PDK if not explicitly mentioned? Look for pictures of the steering wheel with paddles vs no paddles?
I have a 2007 4S with tiptronic, I admit it is a bit outdated compared to the PDK but it drives smooth in auto mode and works very good in manual mode too. The Tiptronic S as it is called was the last and latest development before PDK. The Tiptronic S is bullet prove as it handles the power and torque from a Turbo as well.
I sporadically track my car as well. In sport mode and tiptronic in manual I am able to follow the manual and PDK's - or overtake them. I have driven several PDK 911's, including the GT3 and a Boxster and like it but not to the point I hate my Tiptronic.
I have driven more than 30 years manual (sport) cars, so I don't need to have a manual anymore although I appreciate to work with the 3 pedals. With more daily traffic on the road I appreciate the automatic box more as it is way more comfortable for me now. There was a time I was a die-hard fan for the manual box, since the GT3 PDK I changed my opinion. All my other cars are automatic too these days.
Don't listen to the people who tell you that you need a manual for a 911 or any other sportscar. The same people warn you about the overrev reports too hahahahah
Testdrive the different options and buy what suits you. Easiest to see if there is a PDK is to look at only 2 pedals, but you will not find a 997.1 with PDK, only Tiptronic.
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08-05-2016, 08:09 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Rikky001 is right, but it's a disservice to consider them equal, as if the choice is auto or manual. The three choices: Tip (good, maybe very good), manual (legendary, legacy) or PDK (Amazing performance previously unimagined. Even people who hate automatics admit this is a game changer).
A PDK is much, much more desirable. So, A Tipronic can be nice... and pretty good. The PDK is beyond worthy: It actually elevates the car to new performance levels that are unattainable by Tip or manual. It's a game changer.
That doesn't mean Tip won't do you fine. Just like it's nice to know the difference between a 911 Carrera and a GT3. Calling the GT3 amazing doesn't change the fact that a Carrera is very good.
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A PDK is much, much more desirable. So, A Tipronic can be nice... and pretty good. The PDK is beyond worthy: It actually elevates the car to new performance levels that are unattainable by Tip or manual. It's a game changer.
That doesn't mean Tip won't do you fine. Just like it's nice to know the difference between a 911 Carrera and a GT3. Calling the GT3 amazing doesn't change the fact that a Carrera is very good.
.