Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S

w/ Bose High End Sound Package, Bluetooth, PCM Voice Control, Navigation Module, Universal Audio Interface, and XM Radio

1 - Where is the amp? I understand for 2009 and later, it is under the passenger seat. I see something in there but is that the amp or maybe just the nav unit?
2 - What is the amp part number? In my 2010 Katalog, it shows the amp as item #2 but shows no part listing. See pictures below.
3 - Anyone know the amp pinout configuration? In this link, Serg124 shows amp pins on the head unit. This is really really weird... I believe my 2009 has the complete, Bose package sans integral phone, but I am not sure Serg124 has the same setup as mine... really odd.
Link to amp discussion

I can find very very little on this for the 997.2 and the darn Katalog is a mess. Some posts said the amp is integral to the head unit.... is this a lesser, lower model configuration?

I am going to replace my head unit and amp. I already did the speakers and while there was

Peace
Bruce in Philly

No list or description for item 2 that I think is the amp and is located under the passenger seat.

Fined

What are you planning on putting in for the head unit and amp?

Not going to make a move now, but when my amp goes I will

Bruce In Philly

I am having Goodman in Bryn Mawr do the work. I have complete faith in them... they are not cheap but not the highest and do a great job. They have not done a 997.2 however and that is why I am looking for information to help them out. They will be able to reverse engineer the wiring, but if I can get a diagram on the amp, that will save them some time.

I am getting:

1 - Alpine INE-W957HD (their only nav unit that plays CDs)
http://alpine-usa.com/product/view/ine-w957hd/
2 - Mosconi Gladen channel amp.... I don't know which model number - it is about a $1500 unit. Darn!!
3 - Some XM/Serious unit add on (I think Alpine but not sure)
4 - A small JL amp for the Bose subwoofer about $150
5 - Can adapter for multi-function steering wheel.

For the amp, I wanted a much cheaper JL amp but it was too big. I want the amp to be under the driver's seat where all the speaker cabling terminates and not take up valuable room in my frunk. The Mosconi amps are much smaller. Goodman's also said the sound is much better with the Mosconi's and I can super-configure the amp's controls with my PC via bluetooth - it has a 32 channel equalizer with some time delay settings.... crazy stuff. But the big issue was the size.

I already replaced all my speakers with Focal units on a DIY project... very difficult with limited improvement. If I had to do it again, I would do the above electronics but keep the Bose speaker system. The sound benefits are mostly from the electronics and not the speakers - I know, counter-intuitive but that is the way it is.

Some are trying to keep the amp... I don't know why you would do this, as it is the most important for sound improvement. And some are trying to just replace the amp as I was trying to do but you can't do that. The head unit talks to the amp via an optical cable and it is proprietary. There is a company called Mobridge that makes an adapter, but it won't work for PCM 3, only early versions.

I will have another issue and I will get computer error, I am told it will not trip a dash light, but with my Durametric Pro, I can just set the system for "No PCM" and it will not occur. If the Durametric won't work, I can go to the dealer to have them set it for off.

Anyway, I will start another thread when this is done with a bunch of mystery information such as head unit pinouts and other stuff. Remember: the 997.2 is a different animal and the PCM 3 is no different. When folks post answers about a 997, don't assume it will work for your car.... get clarification on .1 vs .2.

NOTE: Before anyone takes any action based on what I wrote, find my soon to be thread on what actually was installed and what we found. Some of the information I have may be suspect as I received all kind of information about the amp, amp location, pinouts etc...... this all remains to be proven out.

Stay tuned.

Peace,
Bruce in Philly

MemeMagno

Really nice project...but unfortunately there is no way to re-use the Bose OEM Amp when the HU is replaced, with/ without the MoBridge DA3...
The MoBridge DA3 is used to integrate the OEM HU with aftermarket amplifiers (Converting Digital output signal into Analog ones).The big benefit is associated to replace the factory amplifier (Bose) and eliminates the need for high to low voltage converters and/or summing devices (Summing the Sub).

But why paying $750 for such a thing?

Because the Bose Surround System in 997.2 has a Media Oriented Systems Transport (MOST), which is a ring network topology used by Porsche to carry data from the OEM HU PCM 3.0 to different modules in the car via fiber optic cables. Data can be audio, control signals, plain data. Porsche implementation of this MOST is proprietary, meaning: the data is encoded in a particular way by Porsche. It also means that you cannot just plug a Toslink-connector device into this MOST cabling and expect it to work even after creating a "custom" Toslink interface to the MOST cabling. Just because one is digital and the other is digital as well does not mean anything in particular when connected together.

If you unplug any MOST device then you are in fact breaking the ring. Meaning: audio, control and plain data are not going anywhere in your car via the broken MOST ring. The Bose OEM amp is part of the MOST ring. The inputs of the OEM amp are the proprietary/encoded digital outputs of the OEM HU PCM 3.0 via fiber optics. Meaning: the inputs are useless unless you have a proprietary decoder. It also means that if you unplug the OEM amp then you are breaking the MOST ring.

I only know 3 decoders for the Porsche PCM 3.0 MOST inputs:
*OEM Bose amp
*MoBridge DA3 converters (Also Used in many Cayenne, Macan, 991, etc. by owner who are not willing (or can't) to replace the OEM HU.
*Audion Bit DMI (Works just with Audison Amps/ DSPs.)

Summary: MoBridge DA3 only make sense for 997 owners who would like to keep the OEM HU, powering the new speakers with a new Amp (by-passing the Bose OEM Amp).

PS. The Mosconi Gladen One 60.8 it's a great piece of equipment, but also take a look to HELIX V EIGHT DSP 8-channel amplifier with integrated 10-channel signal processor.

Peace,
T.

Bruce In Philly

Great information! I am committed now the above electronics as they are now on order, and that is what my installer has experience with. He really likes JL stuff but the Mosconi is pretty amazing. I trust his judgment as he is a home and car audiophile like me.

He did a big Alpine/JL system in my old Honda, same in my 2000 Boxster S, and now my 2009 C2S.... the work was steller and the sound was very good.

Anyway, stay tuned.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Bruce In Philly

Some updates to the diagrams above:

Items 1 & 2 share the same part number.

Item 7 is known as a "booster" but is an amp. But no one really knows where this is located. Is this the subwoofer amp? In the diagram, it is noted as "I680" which is the premium sound package.

I have an appointment to have this work done next week.... answers then.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

MemeMagno

Bruce?
Did you replace the center dash speaker? How are you planning to configure it on the DSP/ Amp? Are you re-wiring the entire car?
Thanks,
T.

Bruce In Philly

I will leave it dead. The Mosconi amp has no center channel capability. It will be fine. No rewire of speaker cables.... My installer does not like to do this even though he can make money doing it.... he said Porsche did the work to cancel or avoid noise, buzz, whine.... so they like to just reuse the existing cabling.

The center channel is nice with our Bose system as it does processing to use it and with the 5.1 DVDs, is a must by definition. Otherwise, it is superfluous.

When I replaced my speakers with Focal units, I could not find a unit to fit so I re-used the Bose center speaker. This caused a problem as the center speaker is more efficient than the Focals meaning it played louder than the others. Most folks who do this speaker swap just disconnect the center speaker but I could not leave well enough alone. The following text is from a post I made on another forum.

I just added an attenuator (L-PAD), otherwise known as a volume control to the center speaker. Note that this control can only lower the volume of the driver. You could just add a resistor but that will change the load on the amp and affect frequency response... so, to keep it all linear, you need these L-PADs and wire them according to the diagrams... this keeps the load seen by the amp as constant and keep frequency response linear.

How I did it:

1 - Purchased an L-PAD (variable attenuator) model 260-248 from Parts Express. This unit has the short shaft.
2 - Used a three-conductor audio/video cable... cut the RCA jacks off. Then fished the three-conductor cable down to the driver foot well to where I installed the L-PAD into the upper corner of the little, forward carpeted plate.
3 - Note how I wired the cable end at the speaker. What I don't show is that I soldered the + and - directly to the speaker terminals, and made tiny pins to then plug the appropriate cables into the speaker cable socket (I just disconnected the speaker from the cable and wired the new cable into both the speaker and the cable end).
4 - Drilled a small hole in the plastic carpeted plate and attached the cables to the L-PAD.
5 - It works perfectly.

I suspect the total number of geeks that will do this mod is one... me. If you want more details, just PM me, but follow the pen-drawing I made in the lower right of the one pic.... that is the Rosetta stone.

The blue/black cable to the center speaker is positive (+), the solid blue is negative (-)... I used a battery wired to the terminal to determine which popped the speaker out (positive).

The Bose processor/amp sends some sort of blended signal to that center speaker even when listening to pure stereo and given it is more efficient than the other drivers, it dominates. If you don't listen to 5.1, just disconnect the darn driver... you won't miss it with stereo. But it is essential for 5.1.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

MemeMagno

Thanks so much !!! Please keep us updated about your project (I want to do something quite similar, but I'm not 100% ready to replace the PCM (Don't want to lose OEM features).

Bruce In Philly

Yes, that was a sticking point for me and caused me to go down the wrong path of swapping out speakers. I am not sure what I will lose. If you have Sport Chrono, you will loose a few menu items on your PCM screen such as door locking.

I think I will loose the trip computer capabilities but not sure if this effects the MPG and range on the dash binnacle. I have the multi function steering wheel, but they tell me that with a $100+ adapter, I can program it to work with the Alpine unit.

Other than that...... we will see.

Peace
Bruce in Philly