View Poll Results: Poll: Have you had bore scoring on your 997.1 or 997.2 engine?
Yes, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
143
14.43%
Yes, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
18
1.82%
No, 997.1 (05-08 MY)
527
53.18%
No, 997.2 (09-12 MY)
303
30.58%
Voters: 991. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Scored cylinder failure for your 997, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1 or 997.2)
#587
Rennlist Member
You guys are scaring me with all the bore scoring. I've been planning to buy a 997 sometime over the coming months. It almost sounds like I should plan on an engine re-build at some point in the future as a 997 owner.
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Echo Deuce (12-11-2023)
#588
Rennlist Member
Just something to be aware of before and after purchase. It's worse not knowing and ending up paying full price for a car with a problem which happens more often than not.
The following 2 users liked this post by Charles Navarro:
Echo Deuce (12-11-2023),
Nanaimo Guy (11-02-2022)
#589
Rennlist Member
It sounds like you are saying that there is a high probability that an M97 engine will eventually have this problem - or am I reading that wrong?
I'm in serious conversations with a guy about buying a 2006 Carrera S with about 34k miles. Are you saying I should factor in an engine re-build into the price? Assuming you weren't going to add a lot of performance upgrades, what would an engine re-build to correct the bore scoring problem cost?
If I ask a shop to scope the cylinders to look for this problem as part of a PPI, what should I expect to pay?
I'm in serious conversations with a guy about buying a 2006 Carrera S with about 34k miles. Are you saying I should factor in an engine re-build into the price? Assuming you weren't going to add a lot of performance upgrades, what would an engine re-build to correct the bore scoring problem cost?
If I ask a shop to scope the cylinders to look for this problem as part of a PPI, what should I expect to pay?
#590
A few months after that I saw another 997.1 C4S that I really like with only 30K miles on it and car is in mint condition. Same..got a bore scoring inspection done and it came out with scoring on it. Again the seller was super shocked about it and couldn't believe it. I walked again since I don't want to deal with the headache.
If I was the seller I would have the bore scoring done because I am sure all buyers will ask for that report. Both situation the seller paid for the bore scoring which was nice of them.
As these cars are getting older, there is a higher chances of it happening. Not trying to scare you but to rebuild the engine can cost you anywhere from $25-30K with parts and labor. Also, there is a shortage of parts so you might have to wait 1-2yrs.
#591
#592
Rennlist Member
More generally, it appears to affect, with some exceptions, Boxsters, Caymans and 911s from MY 99 through 2008. I have not seen any data to this point that would suggest the problem on the DFI engine powered models (2009 and later) that is anywhere near as prevalent as it is the models equipped w/ other water cooled engines.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, because it does but to characterize the risk as the same between the 1999-2008 models and the 2009 and later models would be disingenuous. There is a reason that a 997.2 goes for $20k to $25k more than an equivalent 997.1. It’s not the only reason but it sure does factor in pretty significantly.
#593
Rennlist Member
#594
Not an expert but have done quite a bit of reading to understand why and where this happens. I’m sure someone will weigh in with a bit more precision than I can offer off the top of my my head, but. . .
More generally, it appears to affect, with some exceptions, Boxsters, Caymans and 911s from MY 99 through 2008. I have not seen any data to this point that would suggest the problem on the DFI engine powered models (2009 and later) that is anywhere near as prevalent as it is the models equipped w/ other water cooled engines.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, because it does but to characterize the risk as the same between the 1999-2008 models and the 2009 and later models would be disingenuous. There is a reason that a 997.2 goes for $20k to $25k more than an equivalent 997.1. It’s not the only reason but it sure does factor in pretty significantly.
More generally, it appears to affect, with some exceptions, Boxsters, Caymans and 911s from MY 99 through 2008. I have not seen any data to this point that would suggest the problem on the DFI engine powered models (2009 and later) that is anywhere near as prevalent as it is the models equipped w/ other water cooled engines.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, because it does but to characterize the risk as the same between the 1999-2008 models and the 2009 and later models would be disingenuous. There is a reason that a 997.2 goes for $20k to $25k more than an equivalent 997.1. It’s not the only reason but it sure does factor in pretty significantly.
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Lateralgrip (11-04-2022)
#595
What are the percentage of newer 991's with this issue? I am assuming the 991's have a lot fewer bore scoring issues than the 997.1?
#596
These engines should all still have Nikasil plated cylinders like the Mezger got if you ask me. 90% of failures on the 9A1 (997.2, 991) are due to bore scoring.
#597
Rennlist Member
It can manifest itself in different ways depending on the engine (e.g. tighter piston clearances) but certainly your comment about it not affecting or being as prevalent on the DFI engines is false. The reason for the exception like the boxsters has more to do with things like bore-stroke ratios. DFI engines have HPFPs with high pressure injectors that can leak fuel into the cylinder when they are supposed to be shut off or spray improperly such that the fuel doesn't completely atomize. This will wash the oil off the cylinder wall and fuel dilute/thin your oil.
I’m certainly aware that it can happen on 997.2s. I wasn’t aware that it was as prevalent on the 9A1s as it is on the M96/7s. I’m here to learn so totally open to that being possible.
Just because I ain’t heard about doesn’t mean it ain’t so.
#598
Advanced
I wonder how many people are getting their bores scoped, seeing completely normal minor scuffing or streaks, and thinking it’s bore scoring. I’ve seen this happen on here a few times.
Having owned many different cars from different brands, all with their own issues that owners get all worked up about, I can tell you that every 10-20 year old car is going to have its problems. But much of the time it is the people who sell solutions for those problems who are stoking the fires telling everyone it is a huge concern. And they tell you that only they can fix the problem properly. And on every car forum I’ve been on, people eat it right up.
Having owned many different cars from different brands, all with their own issues that owners get all worked up about, I can tell you that every 10-20 year old car is going to have its problems. But much of the time it is the people who sell solutions for those problems who are stoking the fires telling everyone it is a huge concern. And they tell you that only they can fix the problem properly. And on every car forum I’ve been on, people eat it right up.
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Lateralgrip (11-04-2022)
#599
Are you referring to me? I am an investment banker -- I am not selling you any solutions unless you want to buy some derivatives. I manage risk for a living. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that some risk doesn't exist because it makes you feel better, I am not here to stop you...............
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Nanaimo Guy (04-03-2023)
#600
Drifting
Are you referring to me? I am an investment banker -- I am not selling you any solutions unless you want to buy some derivatives. I manage risk for a living. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that some risk doesn't exist because it makes you feel better, I am not here to stop you...............