Buying a wrecked porsche - help
 

Hello

I'm in the market of purchasing a 997.1 C2S and looking to build a fixer-upper (if possible). I would like to know if anyone has purchased a wrecked or salvaged Porsche before so that they can build(engine and or body) it the way they wanted to? I would love to build a Naturally Aspirated engine and have the car running nice!

If you have and if you have any advice that I can possibly use, like what is a good auction to use or is the resale value going to be really bad? Basically the pros and cons would be awesome and much appreciated!

Look forward to hearing some real good debates!

O

For the vast majority of people a "fixer upper" is a 997 that requires some minor services and wear items replaced to bring the car up to spec. Things like oil/filter service, brake fluid flush/bleed, new tires, brakes, plugs, coils, maybe a new clutch or wheel bearing, or some other relatively minor problem that has not advanced far enough to cause any collateral damage and can be put right with new parts and possibly new fluid.

AFAIK Porsche does not publish any 997 engine details for those who wish to rebuild the engine even to the stock specifications. Thus you would be working in the dark regarding the engine rebuild.

If you are capable of properly vetting a wrecked 997 with damage extensive enough to require a salvage title as a good fixer upper candidate car and then doing the work you do not need or should not need to ask for advice on this subject.

Not to be mean but to put it to you as best as I can if you have to ask about doing this you shouldn't do it.

mac typed it to a tee.....even more shocking....he did it in less than 500 words.

What skills do you have in terms of mechanics and/or body work with German engineered sports cars???

Regards,

CF

I have one for you. Let me tell you, this think is awesome....
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5514f3a47f.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...449a1f7ce9.jpg


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5c68c7f4c7.jpg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c347232b34.jpg

2009 C4S, and I'm also in Miami.

OP looking forward to the good debates on whether he should buy a wrecked Porsche. Gmab

Uh, it only takes 5:

IF YOU HAVE TO ASK...

Thanks everyone for their feedback. I'm only asking to see if anyone has done it, I notice a lot of crashed porsche out there.
Also I race motorcycles and a salvaged title could just be body damage and the frame is straight and I'm able race a bike for cheap.
Also when I say build engine I'm referring to pumping the displacement to 200cc over stock / cams / Rods etc.
Again thanks

CF
I've been researching for about 6-8 months now.

Sounds like a good plan--expecially the pumping displacement part. Either Sunset or Seacoast (I don't recall which) had displacement pumps on sale just before the holidays--you might give them a call to see if they are back in stock.

:roflmao:

Been around cars a long time and I'm sure someone has bought a salvaged 997 and resurrected it.

It is just a rare event. Totalled 997's don't grow on trees and by the time the dust has settled every body shop owner, fixer upper shop owner in the area has scouted out the car with an eye to finding a suitable car to buy for a song and put as little money into as possible and turn around and sell the car for a nice profit.

If a car goes through this process of examination by I dare say some pretty experienced people and is still around the car is a parts donor car not a fixer upper.

Bumping the engine displacement by 200CC? Adding custom cams and rods and such? Probably someone has done this but I do not remember coming across a post by anyone who's done this. A few have asked about rebuilding a 997 engine but run into the fact that Porsche just doesn't publish the engine details like other automakers.

Years ago when I was helping friends build engines on my way to learning enough to rebuild engines on my own for most engines almost every automotive machine shop and autoparts store had details on bearing sizes, clearances, stocked or could get 30 over pistons and after market rods, cams and what have you. And the stuff was relatively inexpensive.

But Porsches at least starting with the 996 water cooled models and newer... I have found nothing available.

One noted engine buider has some -- enough -- info in order to rebuild 996 (and 986) engines but he doesn't publish/share this info. I do not know if he is going to gather or has gathered the info together so he can also when the time comes do 997 engines. Even if he has this info good luck getting him to share his hard won knowledge. (Just so it is clear: I don't fault him for his keeping this to himself.)

For the engine my advice would be to see if you can locate an engine builder who can do the machine work and stuff you can't do and see if the builder has experience bumping the engine size out 200cc and fitting cams and rods and what have you. Check the ads in Excellence and Panorama.

For the chassis/tub unless you have a very good eye the only way I know to determine the extent of any chassis/tub damage is to partially disassemble the car and put it on an alignment bench (Celette is one I know about) and check all the body/tub/chassis hard points for proper location. (You need access to the bench and the fixtures. Celette doesn't sell these but rents them out.) If these hard points are ok then that's good. If not then you have to decide if the body/chassis/tub can be pulled straight. Then of course you have to pull the body straight.

If you believe the car can be brought into spec then you have to do this as a straight car is the only suitable starting platform for a car you are going to resurrect.

Sometimes a car comes to a point in its existence it is suitable only to give up its parts to keep better cars on the road. Almost always a car with a salvage title is such a car. It is a parts donor. Nothing more.

Though it has been a while since it happened…when I crashed my GT3 at WGI I entered into negotiations with the insurance company. Ultimately they decided to total it out.

The guy who bought it on a salvage title got in touch with me. Over a period of time he rebuilt it but had to admit he spent more then he thought he would and more then the car was worth!

The insurance guys have a pretty good idea how much it takes to fix something up.
Many techs have just as good an ability. If you are not in that league then perhaps cost overruns are in the future.

Doesn't sharkwerks build out 3.8's to 4.0? That's 200cc, right? :)
I believe it's been done, and by other shops as well. I'm sure it's not cheap, even for complete DIY, but it has been done...

Found someone who did it!!!
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...scitation.html

Jack667 sjarkwerks does it only for GT3.

Macster - dude thanks for the sound advice! I appreciate everyone that is giving me sound advice!

I found ONE shop that has his engine builds broken out by stages and he does it for all models. So just seeing how cheap I can get a C2S for so I can get a Stage III Build. Not to mention suspension n exhaust rims... LOL

That guy did a huge amount of work. That side impact was severe. I didn't read every post in that thread but I can't believe he came out ahead. The rebuild must have been a labor of love.

Not to be a spoil sport but for every one that comes out like in the thread you posted many end up silently being shoved aside. (On a related note: Years ago I thought I wanted to build a hot rod. I looked into a kit or two but the advice I received was to just search out someone who bought a kit and had done nothing and pick up the kit for a song. I considered this and might have done this but I decided I reallly didn't want to build a hot rod from a kit or any other way.)

And I have to recall my 2008 Cayman S which was hit just 4 weeks after I bought it (new). The impact was from the side just ahead of the A-pillar. The car was declared a total loss when the estimated repair bill climbed north of $45K and the car had only cost me $50.6K. (I had bought it discounted from $62.6K. Back then dealers were giving new Porsches away...)

Because the other driver's insurance coverage was inadequate I kept the car with a salvage title. I had an offer by a Porsche salvage business to buy the car at the same amount the insurance allowed for its salvage value, something around $17.3K IIRC, but on a whim/hunch I took the car (flat bedded it) to a car auction site and after a week it was put into the salvage car auction where it sold to a couple of guys who had plans to rebuild the car. Except for the accident damage the car was pristine being just 4 weeks old. Oh they paid $3K more for the car than its salvage value. It is funny I think to note the only time I came out ahead on a car was a car I sold that was totaled.

Anyhow, that was back in 2009. Just recently -- well within the last year -- I used the car's VIN and did a search and found the car. From the picture I could see the body from the driver's side and with the driver's side damage apparently fixed. The car body was in grey primer - the car was painted in speed yellow when I bought it -- and I don't know what if any running gear still present nor the condition of the interior. The car was for sale listed for just $300. At the salvage auction the car had sold for over $20K.

Wow!

Oh, to be young and dumb ambitious again ...

At that age, I was doing HPDE and HSAX events regularly in my DSM and I hated the guys that turned up with new Z06s and 911s in huge trailers wearing fireproof suits around the paddock.

Getting an old guy in a new 997.1 C4S blue-flagged by my ratty, snot-nosed, Japanese import fanboy self in my salvage-titled, $300 Talon TSi AWD that I spent ~$5k on gave me more of a rush than my girlfriend at the time. $25k is not cheap.

But I digress.

I would only buy a salvage titled car for two reasons:

1. I plan on keeping it forever
2. Turning it into a race car

But hey, if Magnus Walker could do it ...

IAAI Auctions
 

So I was in the process of doing the something, buying a wrecked Porsche from an auction and rebuild it myself. I joined IAAI and I watched the daily auctions for six months. I built an excel spreadsheet to track repairs (simple, average or complex), auction price, repair cost, price for parts and so forth. Here is what I found out:

1. If you buy a wreck Porsche or a Porsche that’s been repaired you might as well discount the value by 30%, sometimes 40%.
2. The cars I was tracking were 911’s , 2009 to 2015 GT’s, C4’s and just baseline models.
3. Based on the data I collected you will never break even, in fact you will be at least 15 to 25K over the value of the car once you get it on the road.
a. Case in-point: There was a red 2014 911 C4 with 2800 miles on it. It sold at action four times, highest bid was 56K, never reaching the reserve price. I called the dealer and asked why and they said the insurance company wanted 75K for the car. Car needed frame work on the front, all sheet metal and A-arms, struts. I told the guy on the phone that I wanted the same drugs that they are taking.
4. The only way I would buy a car at an auction is if I would race it, strip it down, bang and beat the sheet metal and call it a day.

I ended purchasing a 997.1 TT with 5600 miles on it, one owner and I got it for 68.5K. I am very happy with the car, it’s the car that I’ve always wanted.

Jeff

Jeff
U sound analytical like me!
Thanks for the advice I'm not too concerned about resale just would like to save money and dump it into building a faster car. But looks like people have convinced me to buy a legit 997.

Just look for a non wrecked higher mileage car. That way no salvage title and since you want to bump the displacement up, who cares about the mileage since you are taking the motor apart anyway.

Mark
That is exactly what I'm going to do, thx bud for validation! On my thoughts