997s deals around the interwebz (no affiliation)
03-15-2019, 01:43 AM
#4681
I shopped 997.2 and 991.1 extensively and thought I was going 991 until I found a 997.2 that ticked all the boxes. I bought it from Tim and we had a good conversation comparing the two generations. In his experience the small gap between them is placing downward pressure on the 997.2.
He also related that they had a really nice 991 C2S that they couldn’t move but has trouble finding nice 997.2s to sell.
I’m not cheerleading the 997.2 as I like them both, just sharing the conversation I had with a very well respected Porsche indy dealer who probably knows more about the market than most.
While the pricing may have remained steady, it may be because they are being buoyed by 997.2 prices which are almost identical. We are now seeing evidence of the pricing crossing over. According to some people, the 991 market is messing up values of older cars because to many layman, it does not make sense yet. This opinion came to me straight from Tim Holt.
He also related that they had a really nice 991 C2S that they couldn’t move but has trouble finding nice 997.2s to sell.
I’m not cheerleading the 997.2 as I like them both, just sharing the conversation I had with a very well respected Porsche indy dealer who probably knows more about the market than most.
While the pricing may have remained steady, it may be because they are being buoyed by 997.2 prices which are almost identical. We are now seeing evidence of the pricing crossing over. According to some people, the 991 market is messing up values of older cars because to many layman, it does not make sense yet. This opinion came to me straight from Tim Holt.
03-15-2019, 01:50 AM
#4682
It would be interesting to compare the msrps between similar (as possible) 997.2 and 991.1. I’m guessing the spread is more than the difference in current prices.
I haven't seen pricing get close yet; in most examples, the spread is $10-15k. The 997.2 C4S (2011) Aqua Blue PDK that was posted a few weeks back with 9,000 miles was listed at $66,900. The cheapest 2013 C4S (1st year of 991 C4S production) coupe in the country with less than 20k miles is priced at $79,000, and most are above $80k.
A friend recently bought a 2013 C2S with all sport options and Sport Design kit; it had 58,000 miles. It was a very, very nice car and super clean, but high on mileage, and he paid $62,500. I have never seen a 997.2 C2S with PDK and nearly 60,000 miles command north of $50,000. A manual with that kind of mileage might get sold in the low 50's.
Even the GTS spread is $15-20k.
Both are great cars, but even the GT3 991 vs 997.2 has a $10k spread. That is saying something, as the 997.2 GT3 is highly coveted and the last of the Mezger (and, it was assumed, the last 6MT GT3).
My math shows that the jump from 997.1 to 997.2 to 991.1 is around 25% per generation when comparing apples to apples. The 991.2 is a bit too new perhaps as it is still steeper in the depreciation curve with fewer examples for sale, but a low mile well equipped C2S 2015 will likely command $80k, and a low-mile well-equipped 2017 C2S $100k (again, 25%).
A friend recently bought a 2013 C2S with all sport options and Sport Design kit; it had 58,000 miles. It was a very, very nice car and super clean, but high on mileage, and he paid $62,500. I have never seen a 997.2 C2S with PDK and nearly 60,000 miles command north of $50,000. A manual with that kind of mileage might get sold in the low 50's.
Even the GTS spread is $15-20k.
Both are great cars, but even the GT3 991 vs 997.2 has a $10k spread. That is saying something, as the 997.2 GT3 is highly coveted and the last of the Mezger (and, it was assumed, the last 6MT GT3).
My math shows that the jump from 997.1 to 997.2 to 991.1 is around 25% per generation when comparing apples to apples. The 991.2 is a bit too new perhaps as it is still steeper in the depreciation curve with fewer examples for sale, but a low mile well equipped C2S 2015 will likely command $80k, and a low-mile well-equipped 2017 C2S $100k (again, 25%).
03-15-2019, 03:18 AM
#4683
rw229 - you have a really nice 993 in your photo, is it an auto or manual? How do you like it compare to the 997? Seriously considering a 993 over the 997. any insights would greatly be appreciated.
03-15-2019, 12:11 PM
#4684
991 is a beautiful design that oozes presence. Especially the turbo S
According to the local shop, Porsche stepped up their game with reliability going from 997 to 991. The recent survey showed the 991 being the most reliable/dependable model in the world vs all other car models including the Prius. He said whereas the 997 would require significant servicing after a year of tracking, the 991 would just keep going.
According to the local shop, Porsche stepped up their game with reliability going from 997 to 991. The recent survey showed the 991 being the most reliable/dependable model in the world vs all other car models including the Prius. He said whereas the 997 would require significant servicing after a year of tracking, the 991 would just keep going.
03-15-2019, 12:18 PM
#4685
Rennlist Member
post link to survey please
03-15-2019, 01:25 PM
#4686
But if only they made the 991 easier to service by the owner I would be more interested. I can see why "local shops" praise and persuade folks to move towards the 991.
03-15-2019, 01:42 PM
#4687
Three Wheelin'
the 997.2 C4S I posted had an MSRP of $120k I believe (late model C4S), and the typical 991 2013 C4S comes in at high 120's.
The difference between the 2009 and 2012 997.2 MSRP are significant as well. Pricing increased by around 5% during those years.
The best way to figure this stuff out is to take a 2012 997.2 and compare directly with a 2012-2013 991. That way, age depreciation isn't a factor. A 2009 will always be cheaper than a 2012 given identical build, mileage, and condition. That is why I used these examples. It is tougher to compare the GTS, for example, as a 3-year difference in age is significant.
I started shopping back 3 years ago, and back then, the spread between a 2012 997.2 C2S and similarly equipped 2012 991 C2S was a bit more; closer to $15k consistently, but with prices higher, it still represents a 25% jump in generational pricing.
I don't know Tim Holt personally, but as he sells only older models, he may not be an unbiased source! I have seen more than a few people trying to convince others that their 997.2 GT3 is "really" worth $120k, even though the market is settling in the low 100's for most 20 to 30k cars with solid builds. Those people also tend to be sitting on a lot of inventory at the moment that they paid too much for last year.
I prefer to run the numbers, talk to people, and see what their cars actually sell for. The fact is; a 997.1 for $40k, a 997.2 for $50k, or a 991.1 for $62k are all fabulous cars that ANYONE should be very happy to own.
03-15-2019, 01:48 PM
#4688
Three Wheelin'
991 is a beautiful design that oozes presence. Especially the turbo S
According to the local shop, Porsche stepped up their game with reliability going from 997 to 991. The recent survey showed the 991 being the most reliable/dependable model in the world vs all other car models including the Prius. He said whereas the 997 would require significant servicing after a year of tracking, the 991 would just keep going.
According to the local shop, Porsche stepped up their game with reliability going from 997 to 991. The recent survey showed the 991 being the most reliable/dependable model in the world vs all other car models including the Prius. He said whereas the 997 would require significant servicing after a year of tracking, the 991 would just keep going.
The 991 is a lot newer though. Bore scoring hasn't proven to be an issue, yet. Most everyone I know who has owned a 991 has found it to be rock solid; countless people have bought the extended warranty only to never touch it. The 997 is reliable for what it is, but if you look at some of the cars for sale, you will see a LOT of receipts on a 60k mile car that you won't see on a 991; just little things that seem to fail early. It would be fairly easy to determine: just look at the service histories of the typical 997 50k mile car here, and compare it to 991 50k mile cars. I haven't done an actual count, but of the several cars I have looked at (both types), the 991 appears to require less small item service.
There was a really nice 997.1 with Vorsteiner front and rear bumpers, and super nice Forgeline wheels for sale a couple of weeks back. That guy had a stack of papers an inch thick, he told me! Blown engine was the biggie, but there were a lot of small issues dealt with over the years.
03-15-2019, 11:17 PM
#4689
Thanks. That was my 2nd 993, (both manual) and it was a DE car with modified suspension and safety equipment.. I sold it to a forum member who was in the auto industry and I believe he did and RS type conversion on it.
993 is a great car, a bit different than the 997. More of a go for a drive than a daily. Best advice would be to research and drive both. I would take either.
993 is a great car, a bit different than the 997. More of a go for a drive than a daily. Best advice would be to research and drive both. I would take either.
03-16-2019, 12:21 AM
#4690
Thanks. That was my 2nd 993, (both manual) and it was a DE car with modified suspension and safety equipment.. I sold it to a forum member who was in the auto industry and I believe he did and RS type conversion on it.
993 is a great car, a bit different than the 997. More of a go for a drive than a daily. Best advice would be to research and drive both. I would take either.
993 is a great car, a bit different than the 997. More of a go for a drive than a daily. Best advice would be to research and drive both. I would take either.
03-16-2019, 07:30 PM
#4692
Phone number matches Philadelphia area so this could be a nice deal: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...838062717.html
03-16-2019, 08:15 PM
#4693
Three Wheelin'
Phone number matches Philadelphia area so this could be a nice deal: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...838062717.html
03-16-2019, 11:41 PM
#4694
03-17-2019, 12:05 AM
#4695
Three Wheelin'
https://austin.craigslist.org/cto/d/...836891374.html this one has an austin number
https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ct...836161001.html this one has a dallas number
I could keep going. But it's definitely a scam.