kcheves

The truth is just the opposite. While the condition of used Porsche's might be on average better than a Honda Accord, the sample size is so much smaller, and the options on each car so different, that KBB is not very useful in comparing 911 prices.

Compare that to an Accord LX 4-door, where the cars are essentially identical and there is a huge sample size. All that differs is condition, and KBB prices cars based on condition.

As a test, I just had KBB calculate what I could by my current car for from a Private Party in Excellent condition. It's an 09 C2S cab with 24K miles that originally sold for $120K, and KBB says that I should be able to get it in SoCal for $62K, which is probably $5-$10K under market.

tbrom

Speedy, I noticed the same things about "midnight blue" C4S. I have ever liked Craig's list - too many possibilities of fraud with no real protection. Car has 35k miles and no CPO - I wouldn't even call on it.

I did get 2 emails from the guy today on the one I'm looking at. The seats are manual basic seats with power tilt every thing else is manual. It came off lease at the dealer - salespersons wife's car. The tires were not new when he bought them and have 7 mm front - rears have 7 and 8 mm of tread which sounds like tires are needed soon - right?

Still tells me to contact dealership and talk to a certain person - I'll give it a try. More later but the car was CPO by the dealer 1 year ago and this owner is busy, probably doesn't know anything but what the manual says and decides he'd rather have something new rather than service this car and he's only put 5500 miles on it - I can relate - not the most enthusiasts think but not everyone is an enthusiast - to some it's just a "cool" sports car with "status" -right. I'd give him a pass on that.

More later

Ezkill

It has additional horsepower over the non S C4. I would believe that's what he means and it is a selling point for S cars.

SpeedyD

I respectfully disagree as KBB adjusts for options, though perhaps it is sometimes on the lower side. Problem with mass market cars is that owners' treatment of them (and thus the condition) varies dramatically -- I rarely see modern porsches that are scratched up, dinged, with uncorrected damage. Regular cars? I see huge disparity in condition, making it hard to get a really good gauge on value for anything other than truly "excellent" examples, because of the huge variation of car conditions on the market. As an absolute dollar matter, yes, the disparity may be smaller, but not as a percentage of the prices.

For what it's worth, $63k (which is what I got when plugging in some basic assumptions based on your sticker price) is probably about right -- when I was looking for cars I noticed that the cabs had more depreciation than the coupes, so the premium for used cars was pretty minimal. For a private sale, with that mileage and that model year, I don't think $63k is actually far off for a C2S cab... $10k off? I don't think someone is getting $72k (based on your $62k est) for that car...

SpeedyD

Agreed... but over non-S it is 40hp in the 997.2 models... not 30... unless I have my specs wrong?

The way it's written though sounds like the person doesn't really know the difference -- again, it probably comes down to me memorizing hp and torque figures since I was 4 years old... and then learning math by figuring out the conversion factors...

SpeedyD

For me, personally, manual seats are not a problem (though I have the 12 way adjustable / ventilated ones currently, which fit me great too). I actually think the treadwear is not bad... don't think you'll need new ones for a while at those levels.

Personally, I think it's fine to talk to the dealer in lieu of the owner. You aren't buying a relationship with the seller, though someone who helps facilitate is obviously much easier to deal with. I'm not even that hesitant about getting PPI done at the same dealer (I admit that most would disagree). Couple times, for convenience or because the seller did them independently of my request, the PPI was done at the dealer... and talking to the technician, I received very frank feedback (and for one car, it caused me to steer away from it entirely).

I would absolutely get DME readout done in addition to PPI. I was shocked by the various reports I've seen in the past. I drive my cars "enthusiastically", but don't miss shifts. Seeing redline hit doesn't phase me in the least (unless absolutely excessive, which makes me question how well the prior driver could drive...) but the higher ranges (3+) would make me nervous.

marriotm

$62k is about the right price for your, sorry to burst your bubble... I am sure it is in excellent condition. These are huge depreciation cars.

Ezkill

They are more of a medium depreciation car in my mind. Without picking on any specific brands there are vehicles that will lose approximately 65-75% of their original value within 5 years.

I had a long and highly regulated search for my vehicle that spanned months of looking. The car that was quoted at 62k with 24k miles would be impossible to buy in California unless there was something horribly wrong with it or you got extremely lucky. During low buying season around the holiday's or in a different state I would agree. All of the 09 cars available locally from April onward with original high MSRP's(PTS, Full Leather) and around 20k miles where in the 69k+ range. The 69k being on the low end.

I'm not trying to defend the value of these cars because it simply doesn't matter to me. I fully accept that vehicles are not an investment and I never consider how much money I'll get back out of a vehicle at sale because I don't sell them very often. My observations are simply based on my experience in SoCal while spending almost 4 months looking for a vehicle and tracking prices.

Para82

Love that C4S *** ^

G356

I'm located in CA. I sold my 10' C2S for asking during the 1st week. It had over 30k miles but it was immaculate.

I had a ton of low ballers. One guy spent an hour asking questions and inspecting and test driving the car. After that, he offered me $59k. Others sent me emails and texts wanting it for less than 60k also. I declined. The first guy asked me how much and I said asking. He told me I would never sell it b/c the car was overpriced, needed a 40k service, wasn't CPO'd, had too many miles, etcetera. He went on an on an said he had appointments to see 6 other cars. I said I had 3 others after him that want to look at the car and that I wasn't going to lower the price to the 1st guy I show it to. He went away pissed.

I promptly sold it to an older doctor gentleman for $65K (asking). He initial offered 62k but I gave him the same spiel. He agreed to the asking price and said afterwards that he had been searching for the right car for over a year and had lost out on several and wasn't going to let this one get away.

So the sell went pretty well considering my local Carmax offered $55K.

Time is money man. It's a lot of hassle fighting over several thousand during a year long search.

Blu311

Here is a similar car for comparison, 09 Targa 4S with 21k miles asking $63 with almost 1 year of CPO left, $118 k MSRP: (no affiliation)

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/4613835122.html

tbrom

This one must be gone...it's not the one I am looking at though but I think it's speaks to the price point. No telling what the options are so it's hard to say how comparable it is.

Thanks for sending....

tbrom

You make a great point - I do have a budget and I might be trying to force this one into my upper limit of my budget but I think 65k is a fair price. As far as your own sale goes - there are two things missing from your post that would help to qualify the sales point on your car: 1) a list of options; 2) the date you sold it.

It may be worth what you got but ....

However you make a good point that in a long search squabbling over a few thousand might be a bad decision. But there is always going to be another car and the longer I wait the closer cars like this will get to my budget.