Sniff

Anyone know if there is a way to determine the rarity of specifically optioned 997's in a given year? For example, how rare is a 2006 C4S with factory Aerokit and X-51? I came from the world of classic muscle cars, and I always heard things like, "This is 1 of 3 1969 big block Super Sport convertibles with manual transmissions painted in Cortez Silver yada yada . . ."

I imagine with so many options on P-Cars, there are probably several "1 of 1's" out there. I've seen figures for general 997 production numbers, but none of that info delineated the major options.

Sean

Smitten

The info is available here, but it would take you some time to check each of the 1149 C4S's that were imported into Canada and the US. (1064 US, 85 Canada).

Sniff

Thanks Smitten . . . I've seen this build sheet link before. Unfortunately it doesn't allow you to search for options other than clicking on each car. I'm interested in knowing how rare my car is, but I am not so sure I am interested enough to manually search 1149 separate entries.

Sean

jhbrennan

Well wouldn't it only be "rare" until someone added the factory aerokit after purchase...and who knows how many have done this.

LexVan

While this might be a rare optioned factory car, DON'T expect that to equate to a much higher selling price in the used car market. Might sell faster, for a little more coin, but nothing significant. Nothing compared to how expensive these options were when new. Pennies on the dollar.

There are just too many 997 made to use the term "rare". YMMV.

40-50 years from now. Might be different.

dsapp

I have to say it is absolutely addicting to start reading the build sheets to see what options other folks have on their cars. Using the link above, I saw that there are 411 other '11 C4S Cabriolets (like mine). I figured I'd start clicking from the top just to see how long it would take to find someone else with Cocoa interior. But I only made it a few clicks before I became totally obsessed reading about some dude with soft ruffled terra-cotta seats with black deviated stitching, black top, wheels, paint, and console with some carbon fiber. Fascinating combo. I want to see that car in the parking lot...just to see it. Ya know?

LexVan

Fair point, but I think the difference comes into play with a factory OE build with a Certificate Of Authenticity, for example.

Sniff

My intent with this thread was not to start a discussion of value. I'm just curious how many other factory X-51/aerokit C4S's are out there since I've never seen another one.

Sean

richard181

X-51's are a bit special and somewhat rare. Most people don't order the $16,000 upgrade.

Mine doesn't have aero kit but does have PCCB.

Doesn't make it any more or less rare just different.

PhilD

X2 A Carrera GT is rare, any 997 Carerra is only as rare as any other 997 Carrera. The X51 adds some value to it, the AWD is valuable to some and not to others.

9114Scab

A car that has a Z51 kit from the factory is relatively rare. But it is not going to have the magnitude of a 73 Carrera RS.

Aftermarket parts do not make a car "truly rare" ( IMHO) Only the factory can do that.

So if it was put on by Porsche, then yes it's value (theoretically) should be higher, than a C4S that had it added later.

It's all about the factory( for all cars).

Tcc1999

Sean, as you know, the Muscle Cars are built to a standard so the manufacturer can offer a 1 of X provenance. Porsche has also done this with certain models that are built as limited release cars but it is the model (e.g. recent Speedster) that is limited in production and so numbered - but you could still customize the order to some extent. So, you are spot on in the idea that there are a lot, and I mean by this A LOT, of one-off 997s that are floating around because there are so many options. Sadly, if you really wanted to know just how rare your proposed combination is you would have to parse through the build sheets.

To appreciate how truly one-off a 997 Porsche is look at the possible combination of options, which would be C(n,r) = n!/r!(n-r)! (where n is the set size and r is the subset size). Also, proceed on the assumption that each option is equally likely to be chosen (you could weight the options but this complicates the math). Also assume that one-off and rare are the same thing.

In your example: a 997 2006 C4S with aero kit and power kit and lets assume that the two options were available for the entire production run (2005 to 2012). I'm just guessing at the eight year production run sent to the U.S. but lets just say it was 9000 units - so the set size is 9000. The subset is model years (of which there are 8) and the two options - so the subset is 10. The result is 1.95607 x 10^32 possible combinations. If you limit it to just the units produced in 2006 (1,156) then the possible combinations are 667,590. Alternatively, if you expand this sample size to all 997s and make the subset 11 (adding the C4S variant) the possible combinations are approximately 2.2 x 10^49. Of course not all options have an an equal chance of being chosen but you get the idea that we all pretty much own one-off cars! And that sort diminishes the cachet which is why PAG can charge so much for it's special edition / limited production models!

So, maybe the real question is: what is the distinction between one-off and rare. Now I am going to find a pin and count/calculate the number of dancing angels on the tip!

Philster

None of this matters with the mid-range models anyway.

We're mid-tier players. If you want an analogy to rarity, then you go straight to the GT3 (and higher) cars. Then you can concern yourself with how many GT3's were ordered with some option that few checked off.

But I appreciate your desire to quantify the rarity. I know mine is rare by just looking around and also by answering the terribly tiresome type questions from friends, family and co-workers: Why did you have to travel 300 miles to get that car. Why couldn't you just buy one locally?

Umm... yeah... because rare, blah blah blah, yada yada yada....

.

tgavem

Rare modern cars are;
2008/2009 GT2 and GT2RS (09 is very rare)
997 GT3RS and 4.0. (Still 600 made of the 4.0)
GT
04/05 GT3 (only 100 to North America of the 05)
Etc

A 50th of the 991 at 1964 made, not that rare either.

As others stated, a one off but not rare. The x51 is nice, but a 997.2 has more horsepower, and why yours won't provide much of a premium on the used car market nor be a big collectible item.
So drive your car and enjoy the experience. :-)

Sniff

Thanks for all your comments, however several of you keep trying to turn this into a discussion about value. Honestly, I'm not interested in that. I simply wanted to know if there was a way to find out how many other cars that year came from the factory like mine. As I mentioned in my original post, this kind of information is repeatedly talked about in the classic American muscle car circles, so I was curious more than anything if the same info was out there for the modern Porsches. Perhaps if I used a word other than "rare" in my title, people wouldn't be so hung up on value. However that was the only word I could come up with.

I will say this that the term "rare" was used by my insurance company. I currently have one of the original Minis insured under a classic car policy and I asked the agent if they would insure my 997.1 as well. She said not typically since the car wasn't at least 25 years old. However if I could prove my 997 was a "rare" car, they would add it to the policy. To qualify, the car would need to be a limited production edition or have unique and/or rare options. In the end they decided a 2006 C4S with factory X-51 and aerokit was rare enough for them. Since my car is not a daily driver and I limit how much and where I drive it, classic car insurance is an attractive option (financially speaking).

Now back to the topic at hand. It appears my answer is out there, however in order to get it I'll need to comb through 1149 build sheets. Perhaps I'll save that one for a rainy day. Thanks.

Sean