Installed Hawk Ceramic Brake Pads on a 997.2
 

I know there are a couple of other threads which discuss the Hawk Ceramic pads. But they are mostly about the 997.1, with a few 997.2 posts mixed in., so I though I would post specifically about the 997.2.

The part numbers for Hawk Ceramic Brake Pads for the 997.2 cars are:

• Front HB667Z.622
• Rear HB664Z.634

Since I have never swapped brake pads prior to today, I followed the DIY on Renntech.org. The DIY threads for the 997.1 and those instructions will also work for the 997.2 pads, so I will not rehash the DIY process.

The only reason I changed pads is because I am so tired of the excessive amount of brake dust that the OEM pads generate.

Here are a couple of pics of my OEM and Hawk pads. The OEM pads have 49,597 miles on them. Pics #1 and #2 are the front pads which could probably go another 25K miles. The rear pads, pic #3, are still about the same thickness as the new Hawk pads.

I have one question for the group. I notice that the brake pedal is now a little softer than before I changed the pads. Is it possible that when compressing the pads that I introduced some air into the brake system? If so, is there an easy way to eliminate it?

Over the course of the next few weeks I will post updates about the amount of brake dust the new ceramic pads generate and also report on the about the braking efficiency of the pads.

I installed the same pads and did not experience any difference in pedal feel. My existing pads were much thicker than yours so I didn't have to compress the piston nearly as much as you had to. I'm not sure about introducing air into your brake line but a simple solution would be to do a short brake bleed from each of the calipers. No need to bleed the entire system since if you did introduce air the bubbles are probably in the caliper itself or very close to it so just a bleed of about 50ml per caliper should do the trick. Just to be sure, sometimes folks loosen the brake reservoir cap prior to compressing the caliper pistons. You did tighten it back up right?

BTW just curious I did not reuse my vibration dampers, did you reuse yours or just leave them off? I have no squealing but it just feels wrong to have something left off of the car.

I previously did some research online on ceramic pads hoping to reduce brake dust and it seems from some forum posts that some aftermarket ceramic pads aren't quite as responsive and require more pedal pressure than others. I don't know if the anecdotal information is accurate, but if you search ceramic pads, I think you'll find some who have echoed your experience.

I did not loosen the brake reservoir cap at all.

I reused the vibration dampers.

You did not allow any air into the system from what you've described. Even if you had removed the reservoir cap the tank would have had to gone empty to introduce air.

JW,

I didn't think there was any way air could have gotten in, but I can't figure out why the pedal is softer now and requires a little more pedal travel for the brakes to begin to bite.

Any thoughts?

I'm no expert but from what I have read you are likely experiencing the characteristics of ceramic pads. I believe you are going to have less brake performance because the pads are not reaching ideal temperatures when not racing. The pads also need to conform to your routers, which were worn or grooved by the previous pads.

I've used Hawk and EBC Red Stuff for daily drivers before. On BMW's the OEM pads grip real well with light pressure giving off tons of dust. Look at the front wheels on many non-enthusiast's BMW's - they're black!. Switching to Hawk's significantly reduced the dusting but required more pressure on the brake pedal. Some normal stopping distance was sacrificed, but panic stops were about equal. It was a fair tradeoff for me.

Some solutions in order of expense:
1. Brake fluid flush - not likely to do much for you but couldn't hurt. If you DIY it it's cheap. You should flush every two years or so for a daily driver anyway. Check the maintenance schedule.
2. Stainless steel braided brake lines - replacing the OEM rubber ones does tighten up the pedal feel
3. Upgrade to 6-pot turbo calipers and larger diameter rotors or aftermarket big brake kit - pushes the braking "lever" further out on the wheel radius requiring less force on the brake pedal. You are in the $1500 to $2000 per axle range here.
4. OEM ceramic rotors and matching pads - imperceptible amounts of dust, fantastic braking, lowers your sprung weight meaning faster accelerations, but holy expensive! North of $10K installed, perhaps higher. Every now and again used/barely used rotors show up in the marketplace for less.

I'm running these too. They may require a little more pressure when cold was what I thought I observed but it was barely noticeable to me. Assuming you put these on without changing or resurfacing your rotors, they may require a few dozen miles to become fully mated up with any slight variation in the surface shape (the rotor wear surface wouldn't have been 100% flat due to wear from the previous pads).

Did you follow the official bedding procedure? It doesn't come described in the box as I recall, you have to be aware that it exists and look it up online. Here it is from their website:
In any case, I don't notice any problems, but that could be because I've gotten used to any differences that may be there.

There is no way you can get air into the line during a typical installation like you performed. The only problem that you may want to check for would be getting the brake reservoir too full by pushing too much fluid back into it... putting it above the recommended Max level. Again, this wouldn't explain any softness. If it is too full, a turkey baster can be used to suck it out (but don't use on your turkey ever again!), are a brake bleeding line can be used to siphon it. Justbe careful not to drip any on your paint since it damages paint quickly.

Semi - I just had a brake fluid flush 3 months ago, so that is not the issue.

Storm - Thanks for posting the Bed-in / Burnishing Instructions. I haven't driven the car much since the new pads were installed. I'll follow the Bed-in / Burnishing Instructions later today.

Thanks to everyone!

I may put the same pads on my car, the dust drives me nuts, let me know how you make out.

Any chance you can share where you bought them? Also how difficult was the install?

Thank you!!

Before I went out to wash the car, I thought I'd share this...

To get an idea of how conservative the dusting is with the Hawk Ceramics, here are closeups of my front wheel (1st photo) and back wheel (2nd photo) after two weeks and probably somewhere around 300 to 350 miles of around-town driving. One thing to note is with normal pads the front wheel is normally much darker than the back wheel, especially around the outer rim. Here you can tell a little difference but not a lot. Note that the barrels stayed pretty clean too.

This was all dry weather driving (maybe a faint mist one day) which helps, but still this is really really good. Note that the first several drives after installation you will get a little more dust and it will lessen as they settle in, but it will still be better than OEM. Also note that I didn't do too much hard core driving during those couple of weeks (for a C2S anyway, maybe more aggressive compared to other drivers :burnout:). I'll show a little more dusting after a hard core drive.

I'd suggest googling around for the best price on any given day. Some places had better prices for front, some for back, and some charge more for shipping. There are a lot of variables. I got mine from Stillen at these prices:

Wow those look great!!!

This is on my short list now

997.1 and 997.2 Carrera S brakes are the exact same...FYI.

Different pads feel different....you can introduce air into the system by just swapping pads out. Whe. You swap pads...pump the brakes like 10 times until pressure builds back up and then go drive the car. Be aware that you will need to seat the new pads to the rotors and to transfer pad the new pad material to the rotor. Until this is done the brake will not grad the rotors as good as they can.

Thanks, Mike!

So it seems to be the consensus that hawk ceramic pads are the way to go to get rid of that god awful brake dust that the factory textar pads produce.

Yup, I would highly recommend it. I only replaced the front ones with the Hawk ceramics and it used to be that the fronts would get dirty twice as fast as the rears. Now it's the opposite.

Bros, i know that replacing with oem pads can be done either fronts only or rears only. However, i am not sure it is recommended to replace only fronts or rears when changing pad material. Can anyone give comments? Porsches have been known for their braking ability and the balance between fronts and rears should be a factor.

FOLLOW-UP:

I has been a few weeks so I thought I would follow up with my impressions of the Hawk Ceramic Brake Pads.

PEDAL FEEL: After properly bedding in the pads, the brake pedal now feels "normal" again, so that issue is gone.

STOPPING PERFORMANCE: On the street, the stopping performance is the same as the stock pads from Porsche. I don't track my car so I can't comment on Hawk vs. stock pads on the track.

BRAKE DUST: The amount of brake dust from the Hawk pads is about 30% to 35% of the amount of dust the stock pads would generate. So a nice 2/3 reduction in brake dust.

I hope this helps anyone else who wants to reduce the amount of brake dust on their car.

Excellent! Thanks for the debrief.

has anyone used this on a car that they casually track (not a track car)... how is the performance?

How? I mean, by what mechanism? It's a completely closed system until the master cylinder fluid level goes low.

tim thanks for the review. i already feel better about purchasing the pads. will be getting them in 5 days. pretty sure my pads still have life in them but i just want to also get rid of the dust..one of our brothers commented that the hawk pads dust is actually gray in color which hides it on silver wheels but would actually show more on dark colored wheels. would you care to comment on this? current oem dust is dark colored so hides a bit on dark colored wheels though still noticeable, less so compared to silver wheels.

Rick,

The Hawk brake dust is a lighter gray than the stock pads, which makes it a little less noticeable on my silver wheels. While the lighter dust color gives the illusion of less brake dust, my post above (#19) is based on the comparison of the actual, not the perceived, amount of brake dust.

sure Tim, but do you think the lighter gray dust will be more noticeable on dark colored rims? just getting your opinion as you have seen it. currently have charcoal hre's and the oem dust is less noticeable than when i had oem silver wheels, but there is still a lot bro, which is irritating to look at.

Do these pads support the brake pad wear sensor? Very interested to try them on my 997.1T.

Yes it is. I have the Hawk ceramic pads with black rims and it shows up quite a lot on black rims, especially in areas that it builds up, which it tends to do. Still better than the massive amount of dust created by the stock pads in my view.

I've run them on the track, no problems with them at all. The ABS kicked in when braking hard and didn't really notice much fade. For "casual" track days they are fine.

Do these pads support the brake pad wear sensor? Very interested to try them on my 997.1T.

Yes, they have the hole in place as well as the slot to route the wire. They are shaped and sized exactly the same as the OEM pads. I am a big fan of the Hawk Ceramics, had them on my other 997 just put them on the car I purchased two weeks ago that had about 80% life remaining. I couldn't stand the dust anymore and the first thing I did was change to the Hawk Ceramics.

I installed the Hawks on the front a few weeks back and tackled the rears today. Looking forward to cleaner wheels!

Ivan,

Nice DIY video. :thumbup:

When I was reinstalling the spring clip, I inserted a phillips screw driver in the outside hole that the pin slides into, and then leveraged the spring clip toward the pads. That allowed me to slide the pin in about half way without much effort. Try that next time and I think you will see how much easier it is to reinsert the pin.

Great DIY video on brake pad install.

thanks

I was going to install ceramics on my sister's car after I painted the calipers, but the "standard suspension" brakes are different than the brakes shown in any of the pictures on this thread. I was on the phone with Hawk and they do not make a pad that fits this caliper. EBC claims they do, but according to their customer service rep, there are none in the US. Has anyone else come across this? Anyone found a ceramic pad that fits the standard suspension caliper? Thanks!

What do you mean by "standard suspension"? Do you mean a non-PASM vehicle, a non-S? Hawk do make a ceramic pad for a C2 with no PASM.

On the EBC site, they list pads for "sport suspension" and "standard suspension". The sport suspension pads are like the ones seen in the pics on this page, the standard are the ones that are on my sisters car. I was using their terminology, not mine or Porsche's. The car has a "Sport" button and a "PSM off" button. For some reason, I cannot upload a picture to the albums, but here is a pic of the caliper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1c...it?usp=sharing

They look like normal Carrera calipers. Forget their terminology, what is the year/model?

Its a 2010 C2 Cab. Hers is a pic of the two different pads:
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...s-on-997-2.jpg

Here is a shot with my sister's caliper (white) and the caliper form the video a couple of posts back.
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...composite2.jpg
Notice that they are quite different.

By "sport" suspension they mean a Carrera S not a Carrera. This is what I used on my Carrera, but I believe they are different for a 2010.

http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...pads/hb550z634
http://www.hawkperformance.com/perfo...pads/hb290z583

Don't go by the Hawk parts finder app, I ended with a set of wrong pads doing that. I would call someone like Pelican, they will know what you need.

I called Hawk direct and they don't make the pads for the base model. I looks like a place in FL has one set of the EBC fronts. I'll find out for sure tomorrow.

For those who are in the same predicament I am, the EBC part numbers are:

Front: DP32057C Rear: DP31930C

In case you're wondering how the white calipers came out:
https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...3-img-2865.jpg

https://rennlist.com/forums/members/...2-img-2864.jpg

(and yes, I know the car needs a bath!)

That is possible as it looks like they changed for 2010, but as I said, I wouldn't go on what Hawk say. The pads I used are listed on Hawks website for a 2010 Carrera 2.

Don't see them in white often, they look good!

Sorry to bump this thread, but are there any interested parties for a group buy on these?

I would.

do these pads make a squel noise upon braking? that is the most lamest 'feature' on my car.

No, my Hawk pads do not squeal.

Hawk HPS don't squeal if you go to HP+ they will squeal. I run the HPS on my 07 C2 and love them.

Mine do not squeal either

How's the dust level after 5k miles on these ceramic pads? I'm thinking to replace my stock pads to ceramic.

Thanks,

Definitely less dust than factory. The dust is a light gray, so doesn't show up as much on silver rims either, but it does show up on black rims., just not as much of it.

Where did you buy them? I want them for my 997.1 Tt

I got my pads at Tire Rack. Probably could have gotten them a little cheaper on Amazon but Tire Rack is a Rennlist sponsor so I decided to go with them.

No squeal, but I installed mine with the proper anti-squeal shims. I'm not sure what would happen if you leave them out as some seem to do.

6 months later and I'm still extremely pleased with the dust levels. You'll get a little more as they seat themselves in over the first couple of hundred miles (still less than with factory pads though). It's been over a month in my DD since I cleaned the barrels of the wheels (behind the spokes) during a wash and they still look pretty good and silver, there has been no significant dust build-up.

There is a lot of variation in price from place to place and over time. I'd just recommend a thorough web search for the best prices today... or simply use Tire Rack for a known fair price and good service as Tim recommends.

I am if it can happen soon.

I'm keen.

Tire rack doesn't list these pads as an option for 997.1 tt. Anyone know the right pads to order?

Thanks - Sid

Stillen definitely has the best prices for these. Everyone else seems to want $130 for the rear. Only $95 at Stillen. Free shipping too. Just ordered a set.

This is what I can do IF I have 5+

$115.00 front set
$85.95 rear set

shipping $7.00 per axle or $9.00 flat ground for all corners.

That's a good deal, I paid $310 for mine from Pelican.

This is good price.. I'm looking for my 2006 C2S, both axles .. I'm in.

just ordered from stillen

Hawk Performance Ceramic Rear Brake Pads (HB651Z.624) 1 $107.31 $107.31
Hawk Performance Ceramic Front Brake Pads (HB667Z.622) 1 $94.56 $94.56
Sub-Total: $201.87
Federal Express (Home Delivery) : $0.00
Handling Fee: $9.95
Total: $211.82

Count me in if it happens. Thanks.

It pays to wait. Bought mine from amazon when i first read about this thing. Paid i think more than 300. Havent installed it yet now their down to 200. Well, cost of impatience i guess.

Can I get in but on a set of HPS instead of ceramic?

At that price count me in for a 997 4S.

John

Do we have 5 yet? Are we getting this deal or???

John

I could probably get one more on board. Let's get a head count.

Me and possibly one more...Who else?

I am on board for fronts and rears for my '08 Carrerra (non-S). Just let me know!

09 C2S in for F and R

I'm in if possible, 07 997.1 Turbo.

so what is the hawk ceramic part number for the front? i found the one for the rear and they fit. the part hb667 iS NOT the right one...

Got curious so I went at looked at the Hawk fitment guide found at http://www.hawkperformance.com/sites...ATALOG_WEB.pdf

So I hate to tell you this, but IF I read the chart correctly, way down at the top of page 115 is the listing for 2007-2012 Turbos. There is no "Z" listed in the front brake entry for the Turbo, which by the key at the top of the page means there is NO ceramic front pad available for the Turbo. On the previous page you can see that the 667 brakes fit the S models and the "Turbo look". Sorry to give you the bad news, but be sure to check it for yourself.

Well that is sad news!! Thanks for doing all the work for us :)

im interested

So what is the right Hawk Ceramic brake pads part numbers for a 2009 4S front and rear?

The part numbers for Hawk Ceramic Brake Pads for the 997.2 cars are:•Front HB667Z.622
•Rear HB664Z.634

Are we doing a group buy anytime soon? Also, who is a distributor of Hawk pads in this forum?

Im in for the 5+ GB 2006 Carrera S front and rear

i reached out to hawk. they said there is a hb483z.635 but honestly i don't see the part on their website or catalog. That was the hawk ceramic pad that was used for the carrera gt. i'm waiting to hear back to see if this pad is still available.

Thanks,
Sid

spoke with Hawk today. They said they will start making the pads for 997.1TT cars. Bad news it 6-8 weeks to get the pads made. i'm going to leave the ceramic ones on my rears and wait for the fronts to be ready.

What happened to the vendor? We have 5 folks interested.

John

Does this offer still stand?

John

Let's do it. I'm ready!!

What happened with this vendor? He backed out? Anyone know?

John

Yes, what happened? I'm ready to purchase now.

So you guys have been running OEM pads and cleaning an excessive amount of OEM brake dust from your wheels for the last 3 1/2 months because you were waiting for a "group buy" that is going to save you what... maybe $60.00?

PM the vendor. He is a Rennlist site sponsor. His phone number is listed in his Sig.

Put Hawk Ceramic Pads on 3 months ago. Exceedingly glad I did not wait, especially every time I clean my SportDesign wheels. The wheels seem to go three times longer before looking obviously dirty, and the brake dust seems easier and quicker to remove. Cannot detect any difference in stopping characteristics. Incidentally, I think Hawk has had a price increase in the meantime.

Gota911. Thanks for sharing your findings. I put Hawk Ceramics on the Cayenne last year because I have black Sport Design wheels and the Cayenne generates huge amounts of dust with the OEM pads. At first I was concerned that the light colored dust from the ceramics would also be noticeable, but I was completely amazed at how much longer the wheels stay clean. These pads really generate very little dust.

I can also report that they initially felt quite a bit less capable in terms of stopping power, even after following the break in process precisely. The good news is that after a few hundred miles they started to feel just as good as the OEM pads (stopping power) with 1/10th the dust.

As I have black Sport Design wheels on the 911 also, I was planning to install Hawk Ceramics in a couple months time, and it is great to see that many have had similarly positive experiences.

Thanks again. :)

Is performance data available for ceramic pads compared with OEM pads? Butt-dyno results may not apply.

Further... any negative effects re the use of a ceramic abrasive on steel discs?

7 months later and still no front pads for TT cars.

the rear work well and have decent feel. they do squeak a little more but the dust is so much better i can't imagine stock pads.

the customer service at hawks is insane. can't see why it would take 7 months to make brake pads....

Given that... I will stay with stock pads thank you. A little dust is not an issue.

Reading this old post....and...I ment to say you can not introduce air into the system by swapping pads.

Looking at getting Hawk Ceramic brake pads for my 2006 997.1 C4.
I am surprised how much brake dust I get.

I made this handy graphic from page 114/5 of the manual.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2h707e0.png

I think my part is:
[Edit] I have a C4 not a C4S. the part numbers listed below are for the 4S. Not sure about a C4.
HB483 Z.635 (front)
HB664 Z.634 (rear)
Z=Ceramic

Not sure what pad compounds are for.

Oddly enough the chart you've shown (and the one I downloaded trying to double check this) doesn't seem to list a non-S Carrera 4 with iron rotors. I'm pretty sure the one you have listed for the front is for cars with carbon ceramic rotors. I ran into this with my prior C4 a couple of years ago but I seem to have given the paperwork with the correct ones listed to the dealer to give to the next buyer. Dang. I bought the wrong one the first time so I know it is easy to get wrong.

The safest thing I can recommend is to find a firm post by another 997.1 Carrera 4 owner saying which one is correct or maybe even make a fresh post with the title something like "Correct Hawk Pad for a 997.1 C4?". You can also take a look at a known Carrera 4 pad shape (maybe your own if you can get a good enough look) and compare it to the diagrams starting on their catalog page 184.

As to your other question, the pad compound values are listed on that download on page 9. "Z" is Performance Ceramic, "F" is HPS Performance Street. You want the Z of course.

Advising/advocating non-stock pads on a performance car forum is potentially asking for trouble. Those who do so, better have adequate liability insurance.

And this to avoid a little brake dust. :banghead:

Thanks for your help.

I saw a post of yours on renntech.org and if I follow the tirerack link this is the part number I get:
it is the same as the C2 part number.

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/resul...r=Without+TPMS

2006 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA 4 COUPE WITHOUT TPMS
Material: Ceramic
Manufacturer Part #: HB664Z.634 (Rear Brake Pads)(for models with iron discs only)

Material: Ceramic
Manufacturer Part #: HB667Z.622
Note: Front Brake Pads. For models w/ Iron Discs only.

Here is the link to the Ceramic Hawk
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...r=Without+TPMS

My break warning light keeps going off.
Gotta make a decision soon.

Looks like these would fit my 2006 997 C4 (non-TPMS).

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...r=Without+TPMS

I'm getting desperate.
Anyone else use Hawk Ceramic Brake Pads on a 997 C4 ?

I've used them since spring and they are a great.

John

Pedal softness...many times with a new install the backing plate and the pads themselves have gaps that make the pads feel 'soft'...that flexible gap can really make things feel wacky...and by the way, do not reuse backing plates.

I love my Hawks pads and zero dust. I also reused the back plates.

Anyone think the Hawk Pads are noisy ?
I dont mind a bit of noise.

I didn't notice any additional noise on any of the four cars I've used them on, but then again my hearing isn't the best. It must be a minimal change if any.

I really liked the non-ceramic Hawk HPS and HP pads on some of my cars. Then tried some Akebono ceramic pads several years ago on my X Sport Jag, which has always had really good brakes. I went to bed them properly, and found that from moderate speeds they simply would not completely stop the car even with two feet on the brake pedal. I promptly returned them to Tirerack, and put on my favorite Ferodo pads. I posted my experience on the reviews for the pads on the TR sale site, said they were flat out dangerous, my comment was immediately deleted.

No ceramic for me, in any of my cars.

All the best..

NV

Ummmm, I had no idea that this was only a performance car forum... but God forbid I don't wan't any trouble!!

Will Hawk Ceramics be OK in the Winter ?
Anyone with experience ?

Subscribed

I have used mine now for almost 2 years and have had no issues summer or winter. We do get some cold days here but nothing like you have in Canada. I think the bigger concern in the winter is more the tires than the brakes though. My summer Michelin PS2's are like hockey pucks on sub freezing days.

What should I be worried about?
I'm considering these...

Nothing. It's just stupidity.

Soooo, this is indeed good news.... One greatbig beef i had with my car....wait...the ONLY beef of any kind i have is the brake dust...otherwise it is friggidiggy perfect.....sorry for the strong language, but these are strong words for a strong attraction...and,wow, looks like an awesome solution, and i a guessing they will last longer as well...

Do they eat into the rotors more than stock? I personally have not been bothered by brake dust, I thin BMWs are far worse. However, when the time comes to replace it is good to have options.

Mike,

I have driven my car about 10,000 miles since I installed the Hawk pads. At that time I also replaced the front discs with Porsche OEM discs. I have not noticed a unusual amount of disc (rotor) wear.

I should order backs and fronts ... I only need the fronts now.

Tell us how the Hawk Ceramic Pads go !

Do the pads come with new sensors ?

I just installed front and rear Hawk ceramic pads this past weekend on my 997.2 Carrera S. See post here:

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...today-239.html

Also installed front Zimmermann rotors. When buying Hawk pads - your get the pads and a packet of brake squeal goo. I also replaced the front caliper piston insert plates, pad spring, pad retainer pin, cotter-type pin, small rotor screws and the caliper bolts. For the rears, just the pads were replaced. I didn't order new wear sensors as my pads had not worn down to the sensors and I was careful removing them.

The front Hawk pads had a thin plate stuck on the back of the pads similar to the OEM pads. However, the rear Hawk pads had no thin plate stuck to the back of the pads. After I removed the OEM rear pads, I pried off the OEM backing plate but it could not be applied to the back of the Hawk pads because the OEM plate has 4 little dimples that fit into four little depressions on the OEM pads. Installed the rear Hawk pads with no thin backing plate and have had no squeal issues at all.

I bedded the pads/rotors as is described in the Forum and have had no issues at all with any squeal or noticeable loss of stopping efficacy. The coating on the Zimmermann rotors obviously was immediately worn off, but the dust seems to be much less (the whole reason for the switch to ceramic pads). I am partial to Akebono pads, having used them in all my older Mercs - almost zero dust from Akebono pads.

So far, I am happy. I have the 997 Turbo I wheels with the split spokes and these wheels are a PITA to clean OEM dust off....

As an installation note, the two small screws that hold the rotor to the hub can be a pain to break free with a Phillips screwdriver. I tired that first and could not get enough torque to break the screw free without starting to round out the screw head. Luckily, I have an impact driver that I used with a fat phillips bit - THAT did the trick! I had new screws and applied anti-seize to the the screws to avoid the corrosion that made them hard to remove. I also coated the hub where the wheel seats with anti-seize for ease of future removal.

Al

Thanks for the info but this is confusing. Where did you apply the anti-seize? Between the hub and rotor hat or between the rotor hat and the wheel? If you applied it between he hub and the wheel you forgot to install your rotor. ;)

Instead of between, wouldn't it be on the wheel hub and the top of the rotor hat?

Wheel hub is a good idea, rotor hat maybe if you go very long period without taking the wheel off.

Installing the Hawk ceramic brake pads on my 09 4S Cab was definitely a home run. Can't believe I waited so long after all the research I did to believe it was worth doing. Now my wheels stay clean for long periods of time instead of needing to wash them every couple weeks. For anyone who is thinking of doing it.....get on it.

Anti seize paste between the rotor and hub. This is to help removing the rotor next time. The rotor has a coating from Zimmermann that should keep corrosion between the rotor and rear of the wheel.

Sorry for the confusion.

Al

I just did a fair amount of searching and the cheapest I could find was from www.sportcompactwarehouse.com. They have a facebook and reviews so they seem legit. We will see. Anyway, order total came to $244 shipped for front and rear sets of the hawk ceramics.

My experience with ceramics om my BMW ZHP (using "Posi-Quiet" pads) was very disappointing as well, and similar to NV's description. I went through the bedding process twice, re-bled the brakes twice (has already done a fluid change with the pad swap), but the pedal remained "unresponsive". It would need incredible pressure to stop the car, and I found myself misjudging braking distances as a result. Swapped OE pads back in, and regained all my braking feel.

That said, I'm open to any ideas that reduce brake dust...

The posts in this thread and others are full of people telling you that the Hawk ceramics perform great and reduce brake dust dramatically. The prior post didn't provide any meaningful information at all since he based his comments on Akenono pads, which are fairly mass-market pads that I used on my Lexus and you can pick up at most any auto parts store for most any "sporty" car. You can't assume that all ceramic pads are the same just like you can't assume all metallic, semi-metallic, etc. pads are the same.

I get plenty of performance with my Hawk ceramics when I'm driving hard and even when I'm autocrossing brake performance problems never show up. I know that autocrossing isn't the same as all-out track use but it is pretty damned demanding on the car and its brakes. The amount of dust is dramatically less, 80 to 90% I'd guess than OEM pads. I used to clean the dust off two or three times between car washes but that doesn't happen any more.

Unless you are heavily tracking the car I think you'll find the Hawk pads are just what you'll want. I've happily used them on four cars now so it's clear I'm sold.

Edit to add one qualification: Right after washing the car and while the discs and pads are still soaked, it does take a moment and extra pressure for the first one or two seconds of braking. I don't recall that with the OEM pads. But right after a wash is the only time I feel that.

Just installed and completed the bed in process. I have never done brakes before and the install took me 3 hours for all 4 wheels. That includes getting all tools out/jacking up the car at each wheel/pulling off each wheel/telling my wife multiple time that it will only be a few more minutes before we eat dinner. I did not reuse any of the shims attached to the stock pads. My rotors only have 16,000 miles on them and barely have any wear on them. So far, the brake pedal feel is the same as it was before. The stopping power during the bed in process during the hard stops seemed to be the same. I noticed no noise or squealing while doing the bed in. Hopefully this will continue.

Something odd did happen during the install. While pulling the old shims off the front calipers, one of the inserts that goes down inside the hollow brake caliper piston broke free from the back plate and remained in the piston. I couldn't get it out. I noticed no noise or odd braking sensation. Further, I looked and it did not rise above the piston body itself so it should have no effect on the braking. I will report back if anything odd happens.

Just ordered a set (front and rears) from Pelican parts. Not super cheap, but they ship fast since I'm in Socal.

My Brake Pad service light went on this morning (997.2 Targa 4s). 24,000 miles on the car, so I went with pads only (but I'll check the rotors tonight to be sure). I decided since I'm going to do the change to the Hawk's, to do both front and rear. Also ordered a set of sensors, and after doing some more reading, a set of 2 wheel bolt guides.

Hope to do the service this weekend. I've done brake pad replacement on other cars, but never the 997. It sounds pretty straightforward.

Did the Pelican website identity the right pads?

No. I looked them up based on the numbers provided in the first post:

Front: HB667Z.622
Rear: HB664Z.634

When I went to Pelican and typed in my car (2009 Targa 4S), only rear's showed up. I expanded to search to include all 997 cars, and was able to find them by the number.

Well, just looked at the rotor wear dimples. They look very tiny on the fronts. Looks like I'll be ordering some front rotors from Pelican tonight...

Rear rotor and pads look fine, but I'll go ahead and changr the pads to the Hawk.

Installed the front pads and new rotors this morning. Did the bedding-in procedure, and so far looks good. Feels the same as stock.

The hardest part of the install: routing the damn sensor wiring. Porsche routes it using 4-5 clips on each side, which were a pain to remove/reinstall. Makes for a beautiful looking install, but man, what a hassle.

Unfortunately, my rear pads were drop shipped directly from Hawk, so haven't gotten here yet. I'll probably install them next weekend...

I've read that the Hawk ceramics don't have as much initial bite as oem textars, is this true?

Been running these for over a year now for street use (run PFC08/11 for track). They work well, definitely a bit less initial bite than OEM pads but once you get used to it, it's fine and the performance is similar but markedly less visible brake dust.

That's what everyone says, but I just replaced my OEM pads with Hawk ceramics, and I think the Hawks have the same initial bite, if not better. The bed in procedure made a big difference, nobody should skip it when swapping the pads out.

Do you guys replace pads at both the front and rear at the same time or are you just doing the front ?

I did the fronts, and am waiting for the rears to arrive.

I had to do the fronts since my brake pad warning light was on, and didn't want to wait for the rears I ordered to come in.

Thanks. Amazon shows that these don't fit the 997.2. Just wanted to be sure. Not the first time Amazon was wrong on car parts.

I can confirm the fronts are correct.

I just got the rears in yesterday, and will install this weekend. But if you read through this thread, everyone seems to agree that the rears are HB664Z.634.

I ve used these pads on vettes for years and my 15' Z51 created dust like a West Texas drought. As soon as I need them, they are getting installed. Happy to see the great results. My 11' 4S shows dust not as bad as the vette but very visible.

Great excuse the wash and wax the wheel barrels.

That's what I have on my GTS (same brakes as Carrera S). They are great street pads but just about as good as OEM on track. They put a LOT of heat into the caliper. Get Pagid or another dedicated track pad if you're tracking.

Any 997.1 C4 (non S) owners get Hawk Ceramics ?
Do you have the part numbers handy ?

Yes you can. Two Hawk part numbers fit your car on the front.

Fronts: HB550Z.634 or HB291Z.642

Rears: HB290Z.583

all 4

:cheers:
Thank you. :)

Ordered a full set yesterday. Will install next weekend.

Finished the rears today.

I can confirm that the part numbers posted above for the S cars are correct, both front and rear:

Front: HB667Z.622
Rear: HB664Z.634

Rears were easy-peasy. Even the new sensor wires were easier to route than the fronts. Didn't take much time at all.

Looking forward to spending less time cleaning the wheels.

F308 do give feedback on how it feels and how it does its job

Where did you find the best deal on the wear sensors?

Can you verify these past numbers for a 997.2 C2S?
997.612.676.01. Rear
997.612.678.00. Front

Braking seems the same to me in everyday driving. I really don't notice a difference from stock. My car is a daily driver, and not a track car, so I can't comment on any differences in track conditions.

Brake dust is much less, but it is still there (based on the front wheels, done last week). Like other's have said, it's a lighter color, so much less noticeable.

I use the Armor All Wheel Protectant, so what little brake dust there is on the wheels wipes right off.

Overall, I'm very happy with the change.

Thanks brother.

Anyone think this might be useful ?

What Rotors go well with the Hawk Ceramics for a 997.1 ?

I Installed A Set of Hawks ceramic pads on my 997.2 last Saturday. I bed them in and they feel great. Initial bite is as good as or better than OEM pads. I really like them. Can't wait to see how much less brake dust I get.

Front pads for 2009 Carrera Cabriolet
 

I received the wrong pads for my car, and the issue seems to be pretty prevalent across all online parts houses. I finally called up Hawk and they told me to run HB719Z.668 for the fronts. Can anyone confirm this is the correct part number?

Thanks,
Chris

Chris, this is a timely post. I am in the process of returning brake pads due to the parts warehouse sending me the wrong pads as well for my 09 C2 base. It looks like the 719 profile is the correct profile for the front, but did they mention anything about the rear?

Here is a diagram of the 719 profile:
http://www.discoveryparts.com/hawk-a...che-front.html


Thanks
Rob

Here's my suggestion. Hawk has a detailed catalog that can be downloaded on their site at this link: http://www.hawkperformance.com/sites...ATALOG_WEB.pdf

Not only does it have a detailed application chart, it also has diagrams of all of the pad shapes so you can verify if it matches your pad shapes or not. Note that the diagrams do not show the harmonic damper discs if your pads use them, but they are there on the actual pads when you receive them.

[Edit: Oddly enough I just looked and they don't show the shape for HB719! Gah.]

Good luck!

I also just noticed that HB719 doesn't appear to agree with what they have on their chart for your car. Confusing to say the least. Your car is not an S, right?

I suspect your last two posts are reasons why it's difficult to order these pads from a warehouse which uses the Hawk master catalog as a search engine.

For my 997.2 C2S I installed HB664Z.634 and HB667Z.622 pads. Got them from Amazon. Their fit guide said that they wouldn't fit but it is wrong.

It's even hard for me to sometime get the correct part number for Hawk and I'm a Hawk dealer. If anybody has any questions or wants to purchase just contact me.

-Jason

Tired of the dust from my pads , i just installed the hawk hb667Z.622 on my front.........vice grips , a paint stir stick and masking tape to protect calipers when compressing pads .... small screw drives to remove pad sensors and retaining bolt cotter pin, long small sreww driver to free one pad from backing plate as it was stuck on well to pad. Front left took about45 mins as i was afraid of breaking sensor getting it out.....front right took about 25 mins including wheel off and on. I will post about dust when i get a chance to drive again. About same difficulty as an oil change

Yeah, the sensors are very breakable. And BTW, a tool you can get on Amazon for $14 bucks to simplify compressing the pistons is a pad spreader. I prefer the kind shown in the photo below since some of the others don't appear to fit into performance calipers well. It is really just a reverse clamp. I don't use this much, but it sure simplifies things when I do and eliminates the risk of caliper finish damage. There are more pricey ones, but this one works just fine for occasional use.

Edit: Here's a link to this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012FHQ20W. No affiliation.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...95d49e5174.jpg

Just did the break in procedure and ....No squeal or noise noted and the breaking seemed much improved over what was previously on. No dust but then again I only made about 15 stops ha ha

Wouldn't work for me viglink is messing it up ? ... this one does.

I used the same tool, got it from Amazon. Worked great.

Update to this thread - I installed these in my 997.1 Turbo. Resurfaced rotors at the same time. Definitely have lower initial bite and require more pressure than OEM or the Pagid RSL1 I was running before, especially when cold.

Part numbers for a Turbo:
For a 997 Turbo:
Fronts: HB483Z.635
Rears: HB651Z.624

OK, finally have an update. For a 2009 base model, I installed the HB719Z.668 pads in the front and they are correct for the 997.2 base models. I have driven 500 miles on the pads and no untoward behaviors. The pads are slightly grabby on release, but nothing bad at all. The dust is mostly gone. Hawk doesnt make ceramic pads for the rears of our cars, but I found a little tidbit to save us all money for the rears. If you order the Centric 100.13000 pad, they are textar OEM pads for a fraction of the price.

Thanks
Rob

Help! After receiving two wrong sets of front and rear Hawk HPS brake pads from TireRack, I cant seem to get correct part numbers. Car is 2009 997.2 base coupe. Closed caliper. If anyone has info numbers or pictures , it would be greatly appreciated!

Hawk brake pads
 

Need help with correct part numbers for Hawk HPS brake pads for 2009 997.2 base c2. I've gotten 2 wrong sets from tirerack and getting frustrated trying to find correct info for closed caliper pads. Have car apart so looking for solution. Thanks Rennlisters!!

The way hawk part numbers work, the letter in the part number is the compound. So HB719 is the front profile you want to look for.

Anyways, here is the front:
https://www.porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=28587

I don't see anything for the rears right now.

Thanks
Rob

Pads
 

Thanks Rob, at least that's a start. Do you think I should look for another solution for the rears or different brand all together? Looking to do a few track days but mostly weekend street performance. Thnx !,

I have been looking for track pads for our cars, and they seem to be few and far between. There are front and rear offerings from PFC and Pagid, and front pads from Hawk. I dont have experience with PFC pads on the Porsche, and dont know how much you care about brake dust and all of that, but I used to dual duty my BMW on PFC 08s without much of an issue (and I was also able to use them in racing as well once the car was a dedicated track car).

Thanks
Rob

Pads
 

Thanks for direction. I called Tire Rack with no luck, they recommended calling Hawk which I will do on Monday. I gave them the Hawk numder you referenced and it didn't come up. Dealer has Oem available but I would like to upgrade if possible. Maybe I should upgrade to S calipers and be done with it.

I have had an issue with any supplier which uses the official hawk catalog, as you end up being sent pads for an S model car. I looked at upgrading to S calipers as well, but I think I will end up running the PFC pads front/rear if I ever decide to run the 997 on track. SunCoast parts seem to have the correct part numbers for the PFC 08s if you want to go that route. I also got the brake caliper studs so changing pads isnt too much of a hassle. Its a terrible design on the base model cars. I ended up taking my stock pad wear sensors and joining the two wires together to ease pad changeover as well.

https://www.suncoastparts.com/catego...brakesPFC.html

Thanks
Rob

Is the same on the Turbo cars (on the rear calipers at least). Will swap to studs on the next pad change.

Had the same issue sourcing Hawk pads for my car - had to get the part numbers from Hawk via email as their site was out of date, and the supplier had to be talked into ordering as they didn’t have them in their Hawk catalog.

I have a set of 997.2 S pads for sale, BNIB. if anyone is looking for a set, let me know.

https://i.imgur.com/DZxB3Sw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WIUB4VA.jpg

$200 Shipped plus PP fees.

Pads
 

Thnx for the help. I do have access to a professional parts person who offered to help track down part numbers. I will post them as soon as I get them. Hopefully Monday. Seems odd as there many 997.2 c2 2009-2012 30-40k cars that this applys.

Hawk Performance Ceramic Pads
•Front HB667Z.622
•Rear HB664Z.634

What year and model

2009 997.2 4S Cabriolet same as the pic and my signature.

Thanks

Hawk Pads
 

After many emails/calls, I think I've got some answers. I spoke with Gary at Hawk pads direct ( they are an independent dealer of Hawk products) He said the best option for performance pads are as follows- Front 719-654 Hawk 5.0.compound.Rear 651-624 HSP compound. I ordered them and will have them Wednesday. I will post when they arrive and confirm fittment. Hope this helps all 997.2 c2-c4 base owners looking for a performance brake pad.

Awesome. I suspected the GT3 rears would fit since the PFC part numbers cross reference as well, but that would allow us to run Hawk DTC60s/70s as a cheaper option than the Pagid / PFC pads. Let us know if they fit properly.

Thanks
Rob

Just my impressions on Hawk pads... they are good, but not great! I've had them on my Audi before and they were OK on the street, but really sucked at track and barely better than OEM. They also didn't last and squealed.

For a street/track combo pad, THE ONLY PAD that has truly worked for me, and many others I know is Ferodo 2500, PERIOD. It provides the best of both worlds, amazing in street driving, great cold bite after SECOND brake application, and on track with street tires they do NOT fade on our cars. Cannot recommend those enough!

Hawk pads
 

Finally installed pads I received for 997.2 c-2/c-4. They are correct fittment front and rear . Numbers are correct as previously posted. Ordered them from Hawk Pads Direct, issue did arise as front pads I received had been previously been installed and put back in the box. I called them sent pictures and have not heard back from them as to this issue. Paid full price for new pads , not used! Not sure I can recommend them as a source.

I am very frustrated right now. My Indy has had my car for over a week and had to put back on my original front pads because he was not getting the correct Hawk ceramic pads for my base 2005 C2 997 after two orders and dealing directly with Hawk. I was only changing them now because my rotors are still very good (28k miles) and i wanted less dusting. I know he tried but I have to pay him for his time and effort and I am back to square one and out $$.. Apparently their was an issue with the spring clip fitment?. He was able to obtain and install the rear pads however. So two questions:

Has anyone replaced their front pads on a 997.1 base, specifically a 2005, with Ceramic pads? If so, would you happen to know the brand (Hawk?) and part numbers that worked?
Wouldn't all C2 base 2005 - 2008 997.1 front brake pads be the same?

I find it hard to believe that they are not out there, but apparently their is confusion around the correct part numbers and 2005 model designation for some reason. Please help -Thanks!

Updated link.
I'm trying to *FINALLY* buy Hawk Ceramics for my 997.1 C4 (2006)https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b85d746a6b.jpg

Pretty confused what to buy.
I also think they changed their part numbers ! (from 2 years ago).

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a11214ea1c.jpg

If I choose 997 911 .. There are no C4 options :(

I used their online form and emailed them.
Might have to call them. CALL US: +1.800.542.0972

They seem to have alot on amazon. [ ]

I got a reply.

So I want ... (The Z)
Front - HB550Z.634
Rear - HB290Z.606

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...910f94ec40.jpg

Amazon says it doesn't fit my 911. (which is 911 (997) C4 (2006)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c7e59a5e87.jpg

997.1 C4 Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads (Rear) HB290Z-606 (Part #: PEL-HB290Z-606) (Front) HB550Z-634 (PEL-HB550Z-634)

I used their part finder and it actually worked ! (unlike the hawk site and amazon).

Odd.
For my 2007 997.1 S I get:
Part #: PEL-HB664Z-634, rear

Update on these pads after a decent track day:

Had 4 15 minute sessions, and while I didn't have any major issues, these pads were not confidence inspiring and I think that once they got (track) hot, they either started quickly wearing down or ate into my rotors, as I've never seen so much dust after a full day, let alone only 4 sessions.

I had a few moments were I was a little uncomfortable, foot hard on the brake, car not slowing down as fast as I would like. It was clearly heat related as it happened repeatedly at the end of the two long straights. I drove around it and was fine, but it was not a great feeling.

The brake dust was definitely metallic, so suspect a fair amount of rotor in there. Parked next to other cars with OEM or track pads, my wheels looked black with dust compared to theirs that looked like they'd been driving in the street for a week.

Overall I'm not overly unhappy with the pad - they're definitely a little less dusty on the street, and they don't make any noise, but they still produce a fair amount of dust and their lack of initial bite or ability to handle heat means I probably won't use them again.

Now to find a reasonably low dust pad that won't squeal on the street and can handle an occasional track day...

I just installed these on my .1.

nzskater, you are a brave man for even thinking about trying these on a track.

My hope was that these would be a good, dust-less street pad that would handle some autox. I'll keep the track pads for track work. Initial bite is almost nil, which probably means I won't like for an autox. I am still hoping they will bed in better as the old pad deposit wears off and new pad deposit occurs. They are otherwise quiet and pleasant on the street. I will autox them next weekend, so we'll see. They still dust, although significantly less than old pads, so I'm not sure the pay off is there--if I'm still going to have to wash wheels, why not stick with a higher performance pad?

Yeah that's my thinking. If they were very low in dust I could see the benefit, but they're not.

Considering Ferodo DS2500 as my next pad. Seems like a decent compromise between streetability and track performance.

Update on Hawk Ceramic Pads for a 2009 Base C2

Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 10:29 AM
Subject: Hawk Performance Performance Ceramic Brake Pad-Yellow

Hawk,

I have seen that many people on Rennlist have said that the parts noted for their car do not fit when they receive them. I want you to double check the correct part numbers. I need front and rear pads for the following car:
2009 Porsche 911 Base Model Carrera Coupe or sometimes called a C2. I do not have an "S" or composite rotors etc.
VIN-WP0AA29909SXXXXXX
Please let me know the correct part number for your Yellow Ceramic brakes for both the front and rear.

Brian

REPLY FROM HAWK

Here are links to the correct pads for your car:
Front:
http://www.hawkpadsdirect.com/Hawk-P...b719z.668f.htm
Rear:
http://www.hawkpadsdirect.com/Hawk-P...b651z.624r.htm
These are a guaranteed fitment on your car.

Thanks and let me know if you need anything else or want to get them ordered.
Gary
HPD
1.800.918.3804

Hi
Why did not you install the Hawk HPS?
What is more suitable for original brake rotors?
Whose company is Porsche's original brake pads?
Is the Hawk ceramic (yellow) suitable for Rotors original brake?
Thanks

QUOTE=f911;15777153]Hi
Why did not you install the Hawk HPS?

Recommendations of those on this forum that have run both HPS & Ceramics. Most prefer Ceramics.

What is more suitable for original brake rotors?

Original Porsche rotors are cross drilled Zimmerman rotors. If tracking heavily get slotted rotors and not cross drilled rotors.

Whose company is Porsche's original brake pads?

Textar

Is the Hawk ceramic (yellow) suitable for Rotors original brake?

These pads work great with the Zimmerman rotors for street and occasional tracking.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]


Thanks ;)