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I also just installed the Numeric shifter in my 997.2. I previously had the Porsche SSK. I would say there is a noticeable difference in accuracy and stiffness. In the middle position it is very similar in reach to the Porsche SSK. Like USMC_DS1 noted, there is a bit of side-to-side play, and a slight
harshness coming out of reverse into neutral. I may have to tweak the cables a bit. Otherwise, so far, I'm pleased.
I did find the installation a bit tedious, but I had some trouble removing the shift boot. The other slight issue is that I needed a thin wall 10 mm socket to get enough clearance to tighten the left rear mounting nut on the Numeric shifter frame. For whatever reason, my normal 10 mm socket wouldn't fit.
One note on my installation, others may have found this obvious. The right cable retainer has a vertical post on the left side of the retainer - you can see it in Spinout's photo above. I had to remove this post (it is screwed onto the bottom of the retainer using a 2.5 mm hex screw - if you remove the cable retainer you will see it on the bottom) in order to fit the metal retaining clip onto the right shifter cable. Otherwise there wasn't enough clearance to lock the retaining clip onto the cable. After the cable was clipped into the retainer, I put the post back onto the retainer, then screwed the retainer back onto the housing. AFAIK the post is actually redundant, at least in the 997.2.
One item of note as posted by ngng on another thread. Insure that you re-use the white plastic sleeve from the OEM shifter otherwise the Numeric will have significant left to right play/slop. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...m-shifter.html
Watched the F1 movie "Rush" by Ron Howard on cable yesterday... motivated me to work on the p-car. Spent a few hours in the Texas heat(100*F) to lowered the shifter to it's final and shortest throw position. Required removal of the center console, cut a small piece of the carpeting immediately under the shift rod to make room for the extra low position, and adjusted the cable linkage so that the shift rod is aesthetically near vertical with enough freedom of movement w/o hitting the Numeric frame itself. The shorter the driver side linkage the more tilted the shifter will move towards the driver side and the easier it is to shift into reverse. And the longer the passenger side linkage the easier it was to shift through the other gears but too long and the shifter will hit/rub the inside frame of the Numeric shifter assembly. After a couple drives around the neighborhood... adjusting the cable linkage each time I had it all dialed in towards my preference. When I initially installed the Numeric six months ago I wasn't sure that I would like the shortest throw position so I decided to try out the mid and longest throw positions first. Plus I was hesitant about the need to remove carpeting from the car even though it's hidden under the shifter frame and center console. Well... only time will tell but so far I'm sold on the shortest throw position. 1st to 2nd shifts are so short and quick... It's likely a placebo but I feel that my shifting has improved a bit. Since the upshift engages so quicker now I don't lose as much RPM during my shifts. Downsides?... shifting into reverse requires more muscle and likely requires a little more muscle for the rest of the gears but it's so quick I didn't really notice that part. Most notable aspect of the recent change... big grin on my face when I drive the p-car. Images of F1 racers using MT during the 70's and 80's kept coming to mind.
In fact, during the movie Rush when James Hunt was shifting in that final F1 race in Japan with the broken shifter **** or no shifter ****... well I initially did a similar thing when I was tuning the cable linkage in the garage. Hint: leave the center console off when you're tuning/adjusting the shift linkage. Install shift **** to avoid scratching up your hand and to get a true feel of what the lower throw position feels like before you fully commit and button up the project. BTW Rush is a great movie if you haven't seen it. Have a great weekend all and enjoy the ride folks.
One note of warning/clarification. If you leave the center console off and drive it around for tuning/testing purposes you will eventually get an airbag warning light. Easily reset with the Durametric but be forewarned JIC you don't have a DM. There is an airbag sensor within the center console.
I just installed the Numeric and your write-up was invaluable. Just great. thank you. I do want to share some tips from my install:
Removal of Shift ****
For my type of shift ****, you absolutely have to take the **** apart by popping the cap on the top and removing the two little screws, then remove the top/back half of the ****. This decompresses the rubber thingys that compress around the shifter indents. To pop the cap, I had to sharpen my plastic trim removal tool on a fine file to get in there. Then I sliced the top block of rubber with a blade and worked my screwdriver down both sides to the metal shaft. The **** then pulled off no problem. This guy had a nice writeup to remove my type of **** but he, incorrectly IMHO, left the leather **** on. You must remove the **** to un-compress the rubber grippers: Shift **** Removal
Then, the leather popped out of the ring/socket thing... sheesh this was a pain to put back.
To reinstall, you have assemble the front silver **** piece first before you slide the assembly down. I greased the shaft with Amorall and even then had to use a piece of plastic between my hand and the shaft and put my weight on it.
However if you have the communications sockets in your armrest compartment you need to do a few things differently. First remove the rubber mat and then remove the three screws there. Now, pry up the plastic floor. You will see another screw under there. Then disconnect the two cables from the circuit board and pull it out of the holder clips.
I could not get at the forward screws on the silver, sub-trim around the shifter so I had to snap off the top piece. See the MacCarbon for pictures of this extra step. This piece on top of the silver piece is snapped on straight up and down. Just pry up and it will pop out.
Disconnecting the Cables
For the left cable, first just stick a flat blade screwdriver in there and pop it off of the shifter. The plastic pin just pops out. For the cable on the right, you must remove it out of its plastic housing but first, mark the cable with a sharpie. You show marking on the side towards the back of the car. You should mark the silver shaft towards the front of the car near the spring. Then push the spring thing towards the front of the car and turn it clockwise a bit and it will lock open. The cable will come out now and you will see why you need to mark it on that end.
When I replaced the right cable into the springy thing, I tightened it one spline just because my active imagination believes the cable stretched a bit and is why I am having trouble getting into 1st more often. I will report later if this was a good or bad thing I did.
The springy thing will now be hanging from the ball at the shifter bottom. Remove this after your remove the old shifter and just bend it... it will pop out no problem.
Slop
The new shifter feels really precise. But to be honest, I can find almost no slop in the original. I have not test driven the car yet, I will make another post later but I wanted to type this up while it is still fresh in memory.
Demo Unit
I got a discount because this was some sort of demo unit. Some of the parts were anodized black, some silver. I could care less. If you want to know what I paid for it, PM me but only if you are seriously going to buy; I don't want to splash this price out on the 'net and then these guys get hammered with demands.
Difficulty
It was not difficult but it was a pain in the *** as the trim pieces are just a torment as you have to be very careful not to scratch anything or break of the little tabs. You also have to be mechanically inclined as some things are not obvious and I had to really dick around with the shift ****.
Below are some pics and you can see your write-up on RennList on my PC there on my bench. Again James, thank you so much. I hope I added a bit more value to your thread.
UPDATEs
I've driven on it for a just a day now and the impressions are about how tight and mechanical the shifts are. I am actually surprised as when I removed the old OEM shifter, it was pretty tight with no slop so I don't know where all this change in feel comes from. I am happy with it.
Should you do it? In short, it is not that big of a deal. I enjoy a project and now I like the way it shifts. If you get what I am saying, you will be happy. If you are just lusting on the sidelines thinking you NEED this, then your money is probably better spent else ware.
Cable adjustments won't do anything. That is my conclusion. After seeing how a shifter works, the adjustments on either cable only change how straight up it is in neutral and therefore its reference point. All the springyness, clicks, clunks, cable movement/throw lengths, and patterns all come from the transmission end and not the shifter. The shifter is just floppy lever that both pulls and pushes the cables. If you take it all apart and let your mechanical mind work, you will see adjusting the cables due to say "cable stretching" won't do anything. You simply can not tighten up the cables. Can't be done as you will just tip the angle of the shift lever reference point and the cable movement will not change.
It is cool to click and feel the mechanical mechanism working. I like that sort of thing so I am happy I did this project. To me, it is way more beneficial than say and expensive carbon fiber air plenum.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 10-19-2014 at 09:27 PM.
Bruce, congrats on the successful Numeric install and thanks for taking the time to post the additional details & pics to the write-up. BTW, that bi-color demo unit looks sharp.
I have the Numeric installed for about two weeks now and an update:
1) It really did seem to lessen the jam into 1st gear
2) If you like feeling a very mechanical, manly shifter, you will love this thing
I will comment about 1 above.... I just don't know why but it certainly seems to have had an effect. I am not jamming getting into first..... actually, it only happened once in two weeks..... and that says tons given that I was getting pretty annoyed and about to take the car to the dealer. I just don't know why the Numeric had a positive effect.
It shouldn't effect the 1st gear issue. Why? Because the shifter, aftermarket or Porsche, is just a floppy lever. It really should have no effect. The ball at the bottom of the lever floats around in space and pulls/pushes the two cables in and out. Adjusting the cables by shortening or lengthening should do nothing accept effect how straight up the thing is in neutral. The lever follows no guides, grooves or has springs nor notches. The clicking, the spring into neutral between 2nd and 3rd et al are all coming from the transmission end and not the shift lever.
I don't get it...... but ..... I only had the issue once in two weeks with a ton of driving every single day.
By the way, the jamming into first did not seem to be effected by hot or cold. I would sit in neutral at a red light, push it into first and halfway there it would stop... won't go further. I would have to drop back to neutral and let the clutch out/in and or drop to 2nd and then back into 1st.
I have a working theory on why the Numeric lessens the frequency of jamming or sticking when shifting int 1st..... and, by the way, the Numeric really does lessen the frequency.
Supposition: The more mechanical feel of the shifter is changing my shifting behavior to one that is less likely to cause jamming.
I believe that moving the shifter into 1st by making defined, straight-line movements will lessen the jam. Moving the shifter from neutral to 1st by moving in an arc will increase jamming.
So, regardless if you have the Numeric or not, try this from neutral:
1 - Move the shift lever left and hit the reverse "wall" then stop
2 - Move the shift lever directly forward in a straight line into first
Why I believe this: It works. By moving the shift lever in straight sideways or forward/backwards movements, you are only moving one cable and therefore shift mechanism at a time. Moving in an arc moves both mechasims at the same time. Moving the lever left/right moves only one cable. Moving the lever front back moves only the other.
USMC_DS1
I see that we are also an AR fan from your pics!
Ps Great write up!
Yes sir... I just finished an AR-10 build in 260 Rem with a Lilja barrel. Hoping to get in some range time over the holidays.
Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly
I have a working theory on why the Numeric lessens the frequency of jamming or sticking when shifting int 1st..... and, by the way, the Numeric really does lessen the frequency.
Supposition: The more mechanical feel of the shifter is changing my shifting behavior to one that is less likely to cause jamming.
I believe that moving the shifter into 1st by making defined, straight-line movements will lessen the jam. Moving the shifter from neutral to 1st by moving in an arc will increase jamming.
So, regardless if you have the Numeric or not, try this from neutral:
1 - Move the shift lever left and hit the reverse "wall" then stop
2 - Move the shift lever directly forward in a straight line into first
Why I believe this: It works. By moving the shift lever in straight sideways or forward/backwards movements, you are only moving one cable and therefore shift mechanism at a time. Moving in an arc moves both mechasims at the same time. Moving the lever left/right moves only one cable. Moving the lever front back moves only the other.
Try it.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Bruce, add me to your list of those who support your supposition/hypothesis. You're one fellow enthusiast closer to making this a theory. +1
Bruce, add me to your list of those who support your supposition/hypothesis. You're one fellow enthusiast closer to making this a theory. +1
Thanx.... we will see if we get some other posters trying this out.
I should have also said that this may explain why I tend to jam when I am in traffic and getting a horn blown at me. In this awful part of the USA called Nothern Jersey.... cough barf... gak......... If you are not fast on the gas when the light turns green, you get a flock of geese honking at you. When this happens.... yes, I don't always pay attention..... I panic and arc the shifter... or more likely, 45 degree from neutral to first and jam the damn thing.... more horns... some fingers..... followed by a commitment to move as far away from this place as I can some day.
Thanks for the tip Bruce - actually the drama with getting into 1st with the OEM shifter is one of the primary reasons I've been hesitant to get the Numeric - I'm going to try your method, and if notably improved, I see the Numeric on my immediate horizon. Thanks for sharing your hypothesis.
Any of you guys install the CABLES too?? Or just the shifter? Cables are where a lot of the magic happens it sounds like. Stock cables still have all the springs and other crap on them deadening the feel of the shift.
Any of you guys install the CABLES too?? Or just the shifter? Cables are where a lot of the magic happens it sounds like. Stock cables still have all the springs and other crap on them deadening the feel of the shift.
Cables will likely be a project for me in 2015. BTW, jkw911 has the Numeric shifter and cable setup.
05-05-2014, 09:58 PM
