Linwoodc3

*10/4/2013* The search continues, 3 months in and no less discouraged. Prices have come down a bit for two likely reasons: One - the 991s just dropped and people are trading 997s in and placing orders, expanding supply, and Two - it's getting colder, which likely reduces the number of car lot browsers, which ultimately reduces sales opportunities. Prices will have to bring people in now vice the enticing balloons and free hot dogs in the lot.

Top Candidate right now. 2008 C2 Mahogany Brown on Sand Beige C2 with Sport Package ; asking $45995

My Intiaial Thoughts: I would appreciate a seasoned owner or recent buyer PM for a discussion on this car. It would really help me on this. Now, on to the car. I initially passed on this car because the color threw me off somewhat. It's brown, and brown cars are more reminiscent of the 70s era. However, my friend had me carsit his 2013 Wine-reddish brown Boxster S w/ Sand Beige interior for 3 weeks, and the color family grew on me. People constantly complimented the car, and I even liked seeing it parked. I progressed to a PPI on this vehicle, which came back clean. HOWEVER, the AutoCheck record shows "Auctioned as Frame Damage" on the history. But, the PPI came back clean...so now...crossroads. CarFax shows car has made every manufacturer recommended service interval...well kept, but spotty history. This is why I need the advice. I have only seen two (2) cars with this exterior color on sale in the country via Autotrader. Love the uniqueness of that.

Contact w/ seller & notes: Alex Smith is a private dealer in the Canyon Country area of CA. Very straightforward and easy to talk to. He drove the car to the PPI place, even set it up for me since he's had some cars through their in the past. I found the PPI shop myself via online searches, and when I mentioned the name, he knew them. We started talking price and he's "accepting" and appreciate of well presented offers with background justification.

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Key info for others looking for their first Porsche, based on advice in this thread and in respected publications

• Set a budget and STICK TO IT
• In some cases, you're buying someone's prized possession, and their listing price will reflect that vice reality. If someone overpayed for their car when they bought it, that is the "going price" from their perspective. Be careful, or take one in the rear on price.
• Research fair market value in Excellence Consumer Sales Reports, NADA, Edmunds, KBB, Clearbook, and Craigslist, and Ebay Completed Sales It's nearly impossible to find a universally accepted "market value", or so it seems. Porsches are worth what the buyer and seller agree to. My bank only uses NADA values for Porsche, but there's not a dealer on Earth who would let a Porsche go for that...or so it seems.
• Be wary of overpriced dreams....and stay away from underpriced mirages. Overpriced dreams waste money, and bargain lemons leave will sour your pockets from repairs. Do your research on market price (see below), car history, and get third party Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI) and Digital Motor Electronics (DME) Test.
• Do not be afraid of high mileage cars; the previous owner may have experienced and CORRECTED all the defects associated with that Manufactured/Model Year (MY); early year garage queens are untested ticking time bombs for known MY defects
• EVERY Porsche generation had its own set of defects/issues, so DO NOT BE AFRAID OR OVERLY WORRIED ABOUT THE IMS/RMS failure issue. Yes, there's a chance of catastrophic failure, but every car has and WILL have its issues. Give any car time, and something will show up...it's the consequence of evolutionary design.
• TAKE YOUR TIME; there are tons of cars out there. Don't rush and get ripped one on price
• Continuing from above, the flip side is with the dealer. To some, it MAY just be another VIN to add to their profit margin. Businesses run for profit..so don't forget that. It's your hard earned money, and if the price goes above what you can handle, only you are left with the bill. Negotiate or downgrade your choices.
• Walk away from your dream car...if price or experience aren't right for you
• Excellence Magazine's Buyer's Guide is an invaluable source. Pay 14.95 for the hard and digital copy, or 4.95 for the digital copy only.
• Search Rennlist and 6speedonline forums for previous posts on buyer experiences.

Quick details:

• Just started my search, I'm based in Northern VA
• Budget from mid 30s to low 40s..997.1 is target
• **Update** I want the S but budget and price are a concern. Rule #1 from everyone is establish budget..think I'm in Carrera non-S range now
• Did good bit of research on Excellence Buyers Guide, Excellence Mag Sep 2013 Ed, Edmunds, NADA, MotorTrend, Clearbook, Leffingwell's Porsche Buyer's Guided, RennTech, RennList (2-year premium), 6Speedonline, etc.
• Visited Arlington Dealership; manager was slightly rude..offered me a 993 at $25k..said I wouldn't touch a 997.1 for less than $50k...i walked
• Open to cross state sales, hope I get some help from willing enthusiasts to maybe stop by and look at some choices
• Learning tons from your posts

My preferences: Just want a clean and reliable car, with well kept interior and exterior.

Here are some past options:

Still around..price has dropped 2006 Guard's Red C2 on Sand Biege in Chicago area, 25k miles; asking $44,995 now $41999.
My FInal Thoughts: This car is still around but my initial interaction with the seller just turns me off. It's low now, but ti's a "story" car. There's a 3-year hole, and the car was stolen. So, I'd need an exhaustive PPI on this one.
http://tinyurl.com/ko6szuz




"Call me Cap'n"

Hella-Buggin'

Well, do you need awd? If so then two of the three you can dismiss. If you don't need it by might want it you need to drive them to feel the difference. I livei n Californinia and my car will not see snow so I don't need awd. I also, like the driving dynamics of the rear wheel drive car better.

Cpo is nice. I bought my car with it and it paid for itself.

Black is tough to keep clean and I have gt silver and for the most part it always looks clean. However... When black is clean it is simply gorgeous. I'm way to OCD for black but I admire those that can take it on.

Linwoodc3

HellaBuggin: I'm not beholden to AWD, but being that I live in DC (and we can have a harsh winter or two), I'd rather have it than not have it. Truth be told, I HOPE I never take it out in the snow...but...emergencies arise. Your opinion on prices?

TommyV44

Looks wise I like bright colors....so red for me!

Tom

USMC_DS1

Although I'm totally committed to my g-red C2S... In this line-up I'd say the '07 C2S is the better of the lot given that the price is the same, PPI checks out, DME is clean, and it has full leather. By the 07-08 MY the volume of the Porsche TBS's(tech bulletins) had been implemented at the factory vs. the field = fewer potential issues you need to take on. If you must have a WB then that g-red C4 looks great. Whatever you do... get the PPI before you buy. Do you know the options list on these? That will greatly affect our opinions as well. I assume non of these are under warranty/CPO. How many owners? Are service records available? etc... all critical to determine why one stacks higher. IMHO, prices are inline especially if you can negotiate them down another 5-8%. GL and welcome to RL.

mgordon18

If this car will only see snow in an emergency, then you do NOT need AWD. Get a C2S and slap on a set of good winter tires (which you should do regardless of AWD) once the temp gets down to the 30s. You'll be fine. A C2S on snow tires is just as good as any other FWD car out there. There's no need to plunk down more money for the AWD.

Here's a pic of my C2S at the Trader Joe's parking lot in a snowstorm. I cruised by 4 or 5 stuck cars on the way home that night, and I live on a hill!

Linwoodc3

Appreciate that response. Especially the reliability and pricing advice.

bgordon27

My 2 cents: Go for the S. You'll appreciate the extra power everytime you get on it. I think $45k is reasonable. Good luck!

Linwoodc3

mgordon...love the ice-laced Porsche. In my current position as an "aspiring owner", it look as tantalizing as a frost glazed beer to an alcoholic. I really want a 997....now.

Also, I just purchased a CarFAX membership (along with my AutoCheck). CarFax is much better...gives more specific info. Turns out, none of those cars are AWD. Autocheck is less specific, and list a car as C2/C4 or C2S/C4S (two options).

But, thanks for the advice.

smokestack20

Capt Obvious,

A lot going on here, but I'll give you my take.

Mid to high $30k.... its gonna be tough to find a nice example, sometime buying cheap can end up being expensive!

The prevailing wisdom of the LIST is "there are many cars out there BE PATIENT" I say this because it appears you've caught the bug!

I found my car, a Speed Yellow C2S Cab through a private party. The car was meticulously maintained and perfect in every way accept for me, The Color! However my wife "loved" the color. Good enough for me..... after a flawless pre-purchase inspection, I bought it. (This was after I'd almost bought a seal gray 997 from the dealership)
The car's been great and the yellow has certainly grown on me. Actually kinda nice cause after 2+ years I still haven't run across another speed yellow 997.

Moral of the story:
Take your time
Every color on a Porsche looks good
Pre- purchase inspection a must

Good Luck Ken

Linwoodc3

Good advice Ken. Indeed, I've been bitten.

Thanks bgordon

chris.hanle

Agree with the above statements. Take your time and PPI, a dme might show over revs in every range in the "stolen" car. So spend a few hundred prior and put your mind at ease. Prices seem market depending on options, (if nicely equiped), but could ask for less

blake

I think the '07 Silver C2S is the no-brainer. Clean title, and it is a year newer so that will help with resale. I personally prefer the C2S over the C4S as the car feels lighter, and is a bit more fun...

Enjoy the chase.

-B

Linwoodc3

Thanks to all for the responses and advice. Update: I picked up 2012 Excellence Magazine's Porsche Buyer's Guide. Great resource.

Key takeaways:

1. Low mileage is not always good, especially on 5 to 6 years old cars. 8,000 miles per year is average usage, lower per year mileage suggest the driving is not sufficient to warm the engine appropriately.
2. 2007 C2S values are 35,500 to 47,000 according to their pricing guide. Recent Excellence iterations have recent sales transaction data. I can now establish a fair market price for negotiiation
3. EVERY Porsche has experienced its share of problems (964, 987, 922,928, 944993,996,997, etc.). The IMS/RMS seal/ bearing and crankshaft seal issues are no different. Online forums inflate worry. PPIs and well documented service should put used car buyers at ease. or, warranty if you want extra coverage

I'll keep updating as time goes on.

USMC_DS1

+1... Excellence is an excellent resource and I agree with their sentiments.