floatingkiwi

Hi Folks

Doing front brakes on my 2005 C2s. Have done one track day recently since I got the car and the EBC yellows on the front are absolutely stuffed with still 6-7mm of material left. Pad material is breaking off and depositing on the disc.
I'm replacing them with Pagid Blue 4-2 as I've got another track day tomorrow.
Questions: Pagid doesn't have the 2 weights on either end of the pad. What are they and does it matter?
I want to retain the main shim with the 2 cylinders that fits into the caliper - correct? Do I need to spray dampner material between this shim and the pad? The Pagids don't have a secondary shim on the pads like some other brands, the EBC yellow for instance.

Cheers all

Spiffyjiff

the weights are merely to help with squealing, unnecessary.

the "shim with the 2 cylinders" is another squeal dampener. leave it out. unnecessary on the track (and as well might lead to deterioration of the dampener which may end you up with those cylinders stuck in the pistons after they rip off the plate).

no need for spray.

i run my pagids year round, sans squeal dampeners, and rarely have squeal anymore regardless. but if youre not so lucky, then simply reinstall all OEM parts in between track days.

mdrums

^^^^ yep...no need for all that anti squeal junk with track pads.

Also those Pagid blues are not what you want...you want yellows...preferably yellow from and blacks in rear...or PFC08 pads.

Spiffyjiff

good call mdrums, i dont even know what the blues are!

i heard the caymans like the yellow/black front to back but a few 997's i know that have tried that combo do not like it. have you tried? if so, can you describe the difference on track vs. yellow all way around?

MagnusB

Yes, pagid yellow FTW.
RS29 not RS19, http://www.suncoastparts.com/product..._S_BrakesPAGID

Yes they squeal a bit on street :-)

floatingkiwi

Well the blues ran fine on the weekend, possibly I'm braking too hard and late though, they weren't biting quite so hard at the end of the day. NO brake dust compared to the crap EBC yellows that were in there.
I used anti-squeal paste between the stock dampner shims and the pads, one little squeal on track but nothing since then, or on the way back home.

Oil temp got up close to 120degC by the end of the last 15min session.

Is it normal for the oil pressure to drop as you decelerate round corners? Oil press has always been good in this car, more than 2.5 at operating temp at idle with always 5 over about 3.5Krpm.

mdrums

Yes on a Carrera based car the Yellow Black combo works good to adjust the brake bias and helps keep the rear squatted down some under threshold braking.

Spiffyjiff

that about 250F yeah? i run about the same. a little high but nothing too unusual. i have been thinking of adding an extra radiator.

welcome to a wet sump. oil starvation is always a concern especially around long sweepers and ESPECIALLY with stickier tires, better suspension etc (= higher G's). you can try accusump, deeper oil pan, baffles, blah blah blah, but there's always going to be a threat unless you go full dry sump in a GT motor.

floatingkiwi

Well, the EBC Redstuff that were in the back of the car have cratered very badly in the middle of the pad and so much so that the 2 outer sides of the pad as you can see in the photo were the only things doing the breaking. So much so that I had to get the disc resurfaced. These things still have more than half of the pad left - the EBC yellows in the front went the same way, but I never seem to get much heat in the rear.
Why are these pads disintegrating so badly? Is EBC just not a good pad? These were only after 3 smallish track days. (yellowstuff from front on left, redstuff from back on right)

mdrums

I've seen ebc junk before. Good track pads are PFC 08 or Pagid Yellow front...black in back combo for a Carrera based car.

floatingkiwi

997 C2S

OK, now I have a performance street pad in the rear and the pagid blues on the front and I'm having trouble with juddering from the front and material transfer from the blues and just not stopping. Also can't get any heat into the rears (according to my caliper heat stickers) - I think I may have a friction mismatch with what I have in the car now.

So, without going to costly options like Pagid 29 PFC08 etc, what would be a good choice for me with occasional trackdays - Cool carbon, Hawks (of what type) or any other ideas?

I've lost confidence in my brakes now.

7500rpm

Juddering could be from a bad lathe. Have you bedded your pads in correctly? Not stopping well could be both insufficient bed in or over heating during bed in. If your disc has turned blue, you went too hard. I am not familiar with temp stickers so can't comment on how well they work. I used EBC reds once. Didn't meet my expectations and will never use them again. Pagids right now and love them. I see 120 deg C on my water temp, and more, all the time. That's despite installing a third radiator that helped a few degrees. Your Oil pressure dropping in a corner is probably normal since you mentioned dropping revs. It's only a concern when pressure drops when you are increasing revs. That's probably when oil starvation is occurring. Get some sleep with a deep sump upgrade with the corresponding baffles.

7500rpm

BTW floatingkiwi, what were you doing using performance street pads in the track? Been there done that, doesn't work. Yes, tracking cost money. You knew that, didn't you?

floatingkiwi

I think the road pads in rear are making the 4-2 blues in front doing all the work, but still they're not getting that hot really, we're only talking about a 10 min session with 2.5km lap distance.

The front blues seem to be getting deposits on the rotor which I suspect is causing the juddering when hot (ONLY when hot) but hey I'm not an expert so I don't really know, there's too much info out there and I don't really know what to use for both street and occasional track day. I don't want to get into having 2 sets of pads.

floatingkiwi

Well, got PFC 08's all round now and by crikey they stop all right, but still same problem not getting any heat into the rears. Feels like the fronts are doing all the braking, in fact very hard to not get them to lock up during the pad break in procedure. Can't run the rears in because I can't get any heat into them. Still getting judder from somewhere when hot and heavy braking.