All this talk about M96 vs. M97 - what's the straight dope? - Page 2 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Go Back  Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums > Water Cooled Technical Discussion Areas > 997 Forum
Reload this Page >

All this talk about M96 vs. M97 - what's the straight dope?

Notices
997 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

All this talk about M96 vs. M97 - what's the straight dope?

 
Old 12-09-2012, 12:46 AM
  #16  
fanny bay r1
User
 
fanny bay r1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fanny Bay, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,038
Default

Originally Posted by MLindgren View Post
Uhhhhh, most of these fail before a clutch change is necessary.....

Rubbish!!!!!
fanny bay r1 is offline  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:55 AM
  #17  
Papa Fittig
User
 
Papa Fittig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 933
Default

Originally Posted by MLindgren View Post
Uhhhhh, most of these fail before a clutch change is necessary.....

Can I please see statistics proving this?
Papa Fittig is offline  
Old 12-09-2012, 05:57 AM
  #18  
MLindgren
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The D
Posts: 1,757
Default

Originally Posted by Papa Fittig View Post
Can I please see statistics proving this?
I mis-stated this. I'm saying most of the failures that have occurred have likely occurred prior to the clutch ever needing to be changed.

Based on what I've read in numerous forums, the clutch life in these cars is very good unless the pressure plate fails, as mine did.

If there was maintenance steps to prevent IMS failures that were as simple as change the bearing when the clutch fails then we probably wouldn't be reading a new thread every two days about it.
MLindgren is offline  
Old 12-09-2012, 10:39 AM
  #19  
mjsporsche
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
mjsporsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 2,285
Default

Are we overly concerned about IMS bearing failures? I have asked two Porsche dealer service advisors and both have done less than 2 in 7 years. Both were Boxsters.

What is the real story?
mjsporsche is offline  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:40 AM
  #20  
D1coach
User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 280
Default

Before I bought my 2005 I spoke to two indy shops, one of which has been in business over 30 years as well as the local dealer SA, nobody had heard of a 2005 (early or late) IMS problem. Not saying it has never happened, but makes you wonder.
D1coach is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:13 PM
  #21  
M//DREI
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
M//DREI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 115
Default

I recommend anyone with IMS related questions refer to the LN Engineering IMS article http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html

There are a lot of mis information on the web. With regards to the IMS bearing itself, the larger non-replaceable IMS is the considered the updated M97 IMS, which is found typically in MY06+ M96 (3.6) and M97(3.8) motors

"On a new or remanufactured engine built in or after MY06 utilizing the revised M97 IMS, the only "preventative" measure that can be taken short of our Retrofit™ kits is to remove the seal off the front of the IMS bearing, to allow for engine oil to lubricate the bearing."

"A separate ceramic hybrid bearing upgrade is available for the late-style MY06-08 M97 IMS as well."

"although depending on how late the build date was, there may be some MY05 vehicles with the updated M97 IMS, which is not serviceable, at least without teardown of the engine."
M//DREI is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:25 PM
  #22  
BED997
User
 
BED997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 404
Default

LuckyMBA - what was the build date of your 2005 model with the M97 that would accept the retrofit kit? Was is a 2004 build?

Fanny Bay - I could be wrong, but I think they quit doing the white model code frunk stickers after the 993s, or maybe the 996 models, if that is what you are talking about. Where is the engine code sticker located and what does it look like?
BED997 is offline  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:47 AM
  #23  
KNS
User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,446
Default

An eye-opening read on the M97 can be found at hartech.org. The buyers guide (chapters 4 and 5).

Makes me think the M96 might be a little safer after going through those articles...
KNS is offline  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:16 PM
  #24  
Z00mie
User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 194
Default

After bouncing around the net looking at numerous failure posts and discussions with my dealership it does seem that IMS failures occur more on earlier cars with few miles. Obviously my method of determining this isn't scientific but satisfies my belief that a well used M96/ or M97 seems to fare much better than one used sparingly. Lastly when talking to my service manager at Porsche of Greenville he reported that he didn't recall seeing an IMS failure in a 911 since working there. No, I didn't ask how long he worked there and yes he could be attempting to cover for PCNA, but I doubt it. I feel that the IMS issue is likely receiving much more press than is actually due...
Z00mie is offline  
Old 12-15-2012, 03:57 PM
  #25  
Docofthebay
User
 
Docofthebay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Birmingham Alabama
Posts: 22
Default

Per an old thread, the change to the upgraded M97 IMS bearing occurred in January '06 with the first changed engine number ending in 09791
Docofthebay is offline  
Old 12-15-2012, 04:06 PM
  #26  
Luckymba
User
 
Luckymba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 111
Default

My build date was Nov 2004, so yes it was early.
Luckymba is offline  
Old 12-15-2012, 04:32 PM
  #27  
Mspeedster
User
 
Mspeedster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,105
Default

Originally Posted by Docofthebay View Post
Per an old thread, the change to the upgraded M97 IMS bearing occurred in January '06 with the first changed engine number ending in 09791
You've got the year wrong, it was in '05 and nobody seems to know the exact month or date. Jan. '05 was a best guess given a question posed to '05 owners and their engine numbers vs. car build date. (I believe MY05's started production some time in the first half of calendar year 2004.)

Someone posted that the Porsche shop manual for the 997 shows the larger IMS bearing cover and nut were installed at the following engine numbers:
- 69507475 : 3.6L Carrera
- 68509791 : 3.8L Carrera S

But there was one recent '05 owner who claimed to have the larger improved IMS bearing and his engine number was lower than what the shop manual listed. So it seems there still maybe no exact way for an '05 owner to know for sure except actual inspection of the IMS bearing by someone in the know.
Mspeedster is offline  
Old 12-15-2012, 07:51 PM
  #28  
darthhowie
User
 
darthhowie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 32
Default

I asked my Porsche mechanic about the IMS issue and he said it was like Bigfoot, people ask and talk about it from usually from the forums, but no one at the shop as actually seen one.
darthhowie is offline  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:34 AM
  #29  
JayRace
User
 
JayRace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 284
Default

Originally Posted by KNS View Post
An eye-opening read on the M97 can be found at hartech.org. The buyers guide (chapters 4 and 5).

Makes me think the M96 might be a little safer after going through those articles...
Your basing that suggestion on an article written by one engine rebuilder? You will find at least a few examples of cylinder wall scoring in every production engine from every manufacturer. It usually ends up being self inflicted (wrong oil type, oil change interval, etc).
JayRace is offline  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:57 AM
  #30  
wc11
Super User
 
wc11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pickering, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,026
Default

When I bought my '05 C2S last spring, I verified engine type by simply paying the $100 and got the certificate of authenticity from PCNA. M97. 105kms & going strong.
Only thing is the "birthday" on the COA is 12/07/04.
Is that July or December?
wc11 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: All this talk about M96 vs. M97 - what's the straight dope?


Contact Us About Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: