Suns_PSD

My search for a used Porsche continues. I'm trying to get clarification on which model and features I want to pursue and I was hoping I could get some clarification on a few things:

1) PCCB? I can only assume this stands for Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes? What does this option cost on a new Porsche? Is it a good choice for a car that sees some track duty? Are they expensive, complicated, or otherwise problematic? when you replace them, can you get them aftermarket or possibly convert them to standard brakes? Are they lighter than the standard brakes?

2) I'm leaning towards a 997 GT3 but I really prefer the wide body look on the 997. Owning a car w/ 4 wheel drive is completely unacceptable to me. I know the newest GTS's are wide bodies, even the 2 wheel drive model. What body configuration are the GT3s? Can I get a GT3 wide body 997? Are there any other 2 wheel drive 997s that have the wide body? Does the wide body actually improve performance or is it entirely an aesthetic improvement?

3) How much negative front camber can you get out of the front out of say a 997.2 Carrera 2S? How much front negative camber can you get out of a 997.1 GT3? What about the 997.2 GT3? Assuming all OEM suspension components and I'm also assuming that getting -2 to -2.5 camber in the rear on both cars is not a problem.

4) Cl, or CenterLock Wheels sound terrible to me and I have no interest in this product. Do all 997.2 GT3s have them? Do all GTS' have CLs?

I know it's a lot of questions but I've been combing these forums for the last few weeks to try and understand these questions but have not been able to get a definitive answer.

Thanks

DMoore

1. PCCB's cost around $8500 as an option. They are lighter than steel, and create much less brake dust. The rotors are fragile, and can be cracked in the process of putting on a wheel if you're not careful. They last a long time, but a car that's tracked heavily WILL go through rotors and they're dreadfully expensive to replace. I've heard stories of track rats replacing the ceramic rotors with steel to save $.

2. GT3 is narrow body. GT3RS is wide body, and even has front fender flares to cover its wide tires. GTS, GT3RS and GT2RS are the only rear-drive wide body 997's. Too soon to know what Porsche will do with the 991.

3. Not much! I have an '11 GTS and about -1 degree is the most you can get from the stock front end. The rear will go to about -2 degrees, but if the rear exceeds the front it tends to unbalance the car. The GT3 is a different story - I'm told you can get -2.0+, maybe -2.5 from the GT3 front suspension.

4. AFAIK, all 997.2 GT3's are CL wheels, as is the 997.2 Turbo. The CL wheels are standard on the GTS BUT you could order standard 5 bolt wheels as a no-cost option. From personal experience, CL's are a pain until you get familiar with them. Once you have that familiarity and are careful to make sure your torque settings are correct and the center splines are properly engaged, no real problem.

Hope that helps! I was torn between a 997.2 GT3 and the GTS myself. I ended up with the GTS as it's a daily driver and the GT3 was just a little over the top for a DD - at least on the roads that I drive.

DMoore
'11 GTS
'10 Panamera 4S

Chaos

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utkinpol

GTS cars theoretically can be ordered with 5 lugs. if you want new car - get GTS with _sport_ PASM option - it will add LSD as well, i would recommend to order 5 sp manual gearbox with GTS but you can get PDK if you want.

dynamic engine mounts are nice, not sure if GTS comes with them, PCCB depends of your wallet, i would skip it, navigation is nice imho and has to be ordered as an option, also add bluetooth.

if you decide to go with GT3 car - and it is better if you want to track it a lot, add front axle lift option - you will not regret it. GTS car sits higher, you most likely will not need it for GTS.

on a street GTS will have a bit more torque but will lose 997.2 GT3 car badly on a track in high rev section. also GTS will not have a lot of suspension bits GT3 car come with stock, it can be retrofitted aftermarket but will cost extra $.

i would summarize it easily - for 90% street 10% track get GTS. if you intend serious track fun and if will come to at least 30-40% of car usage - get GT3. i never thought i will track my car as much as i do now, almost 90% of miles i put gets from sport, so, it was a mistake to buy non-gt3 car and then start rebuilding it but i do not regret what i got in the end of it. it did cost too much but, now i like it. with gt3 car it would be less work on rebuilds and mods and car would be faster.

also, if you plan to track you car - stay away from 991 cars for now. it is better to wait and see how folks will respond on most major maintenance issues after season of so beating of 991 on a track.

paver

my 997.2 GT3 suspension is completely stock except for rear toe links. Front camber is -2.5. Rear is -2.3.

Some people swear by PCCB's for track. If you read enough on here you will also find that users of them say -they need to be carefully warmed up and cooled down
-pads need to be replaced when they get to 50%
-pads get beveled so they need to be swapped side to side
-they system has a very on/off feel, hard to modulate pressure
-the friction resistance of the rotor is in a very thin veneer on the disc surface. when it goes, the rotor gets much more abrasive and doesn't have much life left.
I have a set in my closet. I have never used them. All I know is what I have read on RL.

The centerlocks are just bling. They are not lighter, not simpler, not faster to use. They require a specific technique and tools. Not following the procedure exactly could lead to nasty problems. Five lug is much more foolproof.

If you are looking for a daily driver, I don't think the GT3 is a good one. I have never driven an RS but it has to be worse as a daily with the lightweight flywheel and it's looks. A GTS would be good for DD and some track. If you really have a GT3/RS itch though, you might as well get one and see what it's like to have one. I love mine.
Good luck to you.

Suns_PSD

Awesome answers guys!

If PCCB wears out, can you just bolt in steel rotors or are there additional changes needed to make this work?

What else do you get our give up when going RS? How much does adding RS add ti the price of a GT3?

Based on what I have read, I feel my car is a 997.1 GT3 RS.

hakaida702

Make sure you get a DME readout. I'm sure a lot of GT3RS cars are tracked and tracked heavily. But I'm also sure that owners of such a fine car are also **** about their cars and take extra care with maintenance. I wouldn't count out a regular GT3 just because of the narrow body. Don't get me wrong, I love the looks of my GTS rear end, but I only got one because I felt that I got a great deal on it otherwise I would've been happy with a C2S.

paver

Speaking of .2 GT3/RS's only(not very familiar with .1's):
The RS is a little lighter, has a different final drive ratio which is more for grunt than top end. It has a lightweight flywheel. 15 more hp. Better aero. And it will almost always come outfitted with sport buckets. If your plan is to frequently track the car, you will want those. Almost no GT3's have them. But practically every RS will. The RS listed at about 20k more than the normal GT3.
On .2's, PCCB rotors can easily be swapped out with brembo type III's and PFC rotors I know. I think it is compatible with stock iron rotors as well. I don't have first hand experience with that though.

I think a lot of guys paid over msrp for new .1 RS's. .2 GT3 may be a better car though.

Suns_PSD

What does it take in terms of money to get up to -2.5 camber on the front of a 911 S? What does one have to buy?

Do any GT3s have back seats or is that just a silly question?

So the RS comes w/ a wider track, and wider rims/ tires that a standard GT3?

Besides the wide body, what else are you gettng above and beyond an S model on the GTS?

Are the 3.8 997.2 DI engines considered completely reliable, even for track usage?

Thanks again guys.

hakaida702

How often do you plan on going to the track? That will be the deciding factor if you should go with a gt3/rs or a c2s or gts.

The gts has more power than a regular c2s, side skirts, different front spoiler, wider rear end and wheels (centerlocks that look great but are more inconvenient to own), pse, and a few other things. I feel that its a great comprise for someone who does a lot more street driving while being capable enough for the track.