ADias

You are correct. I posted the 35ft number but that does not reflect the separation between 2 cars 0.4s apart at 60MPH. Thanks Mike for the analysis.

In any case, a 0.4s diff to 62MPH is a huge amount.

Mike in CA

Last time I checked 0-60 in 4.1/4.3 was faster than 4.5. If your skill level is on a par with Rohrl's then perhaps, with greater effort and under some conditions, you can extract the same performance from a manual as you can from a PDK on the track. For virtually anyone else PDK is going to be faster on the track and on the street. We can play word/logic games with this and focus on isolated examples but it seems pointless.

zoomzoommo

I liked the quote from the doctor in July's Panorama:


"With modern technology, people can have IVF to produce babies. It is easy, no sweat. I would rather do it in the traditional way."

No doubt PDK is incredible technology, but I love that pedal on the left.

MikeBat

I thought that quote was great too, but it is obvious that people who are skillful with the written word can always come up with something witty to justify their choices.

Alan Smithee

For kicks I just looked at the Porsche USA website. For a C2S they quote 0-60 as 4.3 with PDK, and 4.5 without. Top speed as 186 with PDK, and 188 without. So PDK gets you out of the hole quicker, and carries that advantage to .2 seconds at 60, but eventually the manual will pass it.

I assume the 4.1 times mentioned here is with launch control. Unfortunately Porsche does not offer launch control with manual transmission, or it, too, would be another .2 quicker to 60.

As I said before, I don't GAS about 0-60 times. But for those that do, there are so many variables that make .2 seconds insignificant - weather, tires, surface, production differences between cars, to name a few - that the "PDK is faster and therefore better" argument is really quite weak. As for PDK being more economical, it is not the 'PDK' aspect that makes it so - it is the 7th overdrive gear ratio. The 991 will have a 7th gear with the manual as well, so it should achieve similar fuel economy.

PDK is a personal preference, nothing more.

Mike in CA

Although the numbers are the numbers, and you can try to rationalize the differences any way you like, I won't argue that point further. The point I will make is that in the real world, given roughly equal skill levels, it's highly likely that I will be faster than you are with your MT. The race track advantages of quicker shifts, being able to shift in a corner without unbalancing the car, etc. have been mentioned over and over so let's just focus on a simple street scenario. You and I are cruising along side by side in 3rd gear at 45mph just under 3500 rpm and decide to have an impromptu drag race. I hope you get a lot of satisfaction from executing that perfect downshift to 2nd because by the time you do I will already have grabbed 2nd and be accelerating away. Since PDK is no auto slushbox you've probably already lost any chance of catching me (until we reach 186mph, of course ) The point isn't that it matters who wins a street race, but that the immediacy of PDK's response to inputs is what makes it "feel" quicker and be quicker in the real world, not just on paper. I won't try to claim that makes it "better" in any way but it will almost always be quicker. If that doesn't matter to you, as you said, it's your preference.

BTW, your point about efficiency is a straw man argument. No one ever claimed that PDK would always have MPG numbers better than any conceiveable future MT, only that it gets better mileage than Porsche's current MT. Whether that's due to it having a tall 7th gear or it's PDKness is irrelevant to the fact that it's more efficient. Does your Carrera S's MT have 7 speeds? No? Then you will get worse mileage than my Carrera S with PDK, all else being equal. When you buy a 7 speed MT 991 we can have this discussion again.

Waxer

Maybe it's my fault Sorry. What I am trying to say is that yes..PDK is ..faster 0 to 60 mph apples to apples. No argument. I am also not disputing you can feel PDK shift faster than you normally shift. If you were really banging the gears though in a full tilt to 0-60 your shift times would be much faster so the difference in shift times goes down. And no I don't have a mathamatical formula for that Mike.

My point is simply this...the .2 to .3 tenths of a second is hardly noticiable if at all 0 to 60 mph. You may feel slightly quicker shifts but in an actual run there are so many variables such as shift points of the drivers etc...If I blind folded you would you be able to say "ah yes....this car was just .3 tenths of second of a second quicker"? Really? Again, in the real world, I doubt it. In fact there may be some runs the MT driver is quicker. Are you prepared to say that in each and every run the MT would be slower when the difference optimally is .3 tenths of second? I'm sure the difference in times posted by Porsche was based on averages.

I drove a PDK car for 2 1/2 years. I can shift a MT pretty fast but the PDK was a tick faster shifting. My manual GTS feels as fast if not faster then the C4S with PDK.

Bottom line both are great transmissions. Drive what you enjoy. The MT will be more challanging to the average Joe to wring all the potential out of any Porsche. The PDK is an electronic "assist" that gets us all closer to leverl of Walter Rohl.

For me, the MT makes my GTS and I partners in the driving experience rather than the GTS just taking me along for the ride. My take. But I do like the PDK.

zanwar

If we're driving side by side and a t-rex appears in the rear mirror, obviously your more highly evolved PDK transmission will enable you to survive, and I'll be eaten. But otherwise, executing a well timed shift to second is one of the more satisfying things about driving the car. So in the end who's having more fun?

Seriously though, I agree with you on the advantages of PDK. If it was around when I bought my car, I would probably have chosen it.

997_rich

I drive a MT because I'm not afraid of T rex or any other dinosaur.

w00tPORSCHE

It really takes several hours of driving to understand what PDK is all about. A few test drives will never expose the riches of a PDK. I don't understand why some always like to think that a "true" sports car should have a manual transmission.

Alan Smithee

So you would have PDK in your 3.2 if you could?

jfr0317

Well, I tried both (MT in 1985 944, 2001 Boxster, 2005 Boxster S, 2007 Carrera S) and PDK in 2009 Carrera S. I found advantages and disadvantages to both MT and PDK and resolved the problem with my 2011 Turbo S and my just acquired 2010 GT3.

Mike in CA

I'm just gratified and impressed that this subject has gone a relatively civil 6 pages now and no one has called anyone else an ignorant a$$h%le yet........ (No, this is not your cue to do so.......)

blake

Bingo! I would own a PDK as my street car in a second, and will do so with my next DD in two years... But I must have an MT variant in the garage for the track...

Great point. I have been enjoying this thread...lots of good banter.

-Blake

vern1

what oil do you use in a pdk? given how much faster they are do you need to change the viscosity? do you need to take off the engine tray?