997.1S vs 997.2S Can you Feel The Difference?
03-14-2011, 06:25 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
My 997.1 is quick, as a matter of fact the 2008 GT500 I "saw" Sat night was just as impressed with it. Mine does have a few do-dads on it over stock. Some of the comments of how the .2 revs freely to the redline. My .1 revs freely so I don't know how much more free it can be??? LOL.
03-14-2011, 06:59 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Tony, I'm still thinking about the rat thing.
03-14-2011, 07:20 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
That's an interesting point. I guess the question is whether or not the OP is skilled enough to take advantage of the benefits. I took a 997.2 that my sales guy was trying to get me to buy out for about a 45 minute test drive. I honestly can't say I felt a "significant" difference between it and my 08S. If the 997.2 is a better, faster car (and I'm sure it is), I'm not a good enough driver to take advantage of the benefit. Maybe the answer lies in an assessment of how good of a driver you are and/or how badly you want the newest, bestest iteration.
Tony, I'm still thinking about the rat thing.
03-14-2011, 07:22 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Maybe the answer lies in an assessment of how good of a driver you are and/or how badly you want the newest, bestest iteration.
03-16-2011, 02:46 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Sorry, late to the thread...
My 997.1S is quite enjoyable, and I've had the good fortune to drive a 997.2S PDK on the track twice, both occasions with PDE instructors in the passenger seat at various events. My honest opinion is that the 997.2S ONLY felt faster on the shifts. I remember quite vividly walking away saying to myself that the better acceleration numbers were only due to the super quick shifts. There was no noticeable difference, to me, in how the cars pull under WOT. The only differences were the quick shifts. So yes I was going from 30-90mph quicker, but largely because of the shifts. Yes, it is faster, but no it isn't necessarily much more fun. There really wasn't a "seat of the pants" difference that you'll notice in a big way like going from a Carrera to a Turbo.
My 997.1S is quite enjoyable, and I've had the good fortune to drive a 997.2S PDK on the track twice, both occasions with PDE instructors in the passenger seat at various events. My honest opinion is that the 997.2S ONLY felt faster on the shifts. I remember quite vividly walking away saying to myself that the better acceleration numbers were only due to the super quick shifts. There was no noticeable difference, to me, in how the cars pull under WOT. The only differences were the quick shifts. So yes I was going from 30-90mph quicker, but largely because of the shifts. Yes, it is faster, but no it isn't necessarily much more fun. There really wasn't a "seat of the pants" difference that you'll notice in a big way like going from a Carrera to a Turbo.
03-12-2017, 07:55 PM
#37
I remember buying my umpteenth bike; a V65 Magna. I was absolutely blown away with the power of that thing - it's acceleration could pull the eyeballs right out of your head.
Every winter I would park that beast in the garage and every spring I would bring it out and get blown away all over again by it's acceleration. And every year, by the end of the riding season I would be pretty much numb too, if not completely bored by the power of that machine.
Then I bought my first 911 - an '87 3.2 Carrera. I drove several hundred miles with my girlfriend to Fruitland, Idaho to pick it up. Even though that Porsche had a small fraction of the acceleration of any of my bikes, I was still overwhelmed by the experience of driving that car - the acceleration; everything - the whole 911 experience.
I'm now on my third 911 and I've never grown bored by any of these cars like I used to get bored with my bikes within the first few months of a rding season. Shortly after buying that first 911, I stopped riding bikes for the first time since I was a teenager - a span of a few decades and numerous machines.
I never looked back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that 911's are not just about power. Tossing 30 hp into the mix with a 997.2 over a 991.1 doesn't meaningfully alter the experience. That's just not the essence of these cars.
EVERYTHING is dripping with HP these days. You can even get your butt kicked by a Merc or Jeep SUV while driving your Porsche on civilized urban roads, regardless of whether your weapon is a 997.1 or 997.2.
These cars aren't simply about the HP - if you are then you should head over to your local Merc dealer. If you like driving your car - then enjoy it and forget about it.
Every winter I would park that beast in the garage and every spring I would bring it out and get blown away all over again by it's acceleration. And every year, by the end of the riding season I would be pretty much numb too, if not completely bored by the power of that machine.
Then I bought my first 911 - an '87 3.2 Carrera. I drove several hundred miles with my girlfriend to Fruitland, Idaho to pick it up. Even though that Porsche had a small fraction of the acceleration of any of my bikes, I was still overwhelmed by the experience of driving that car - the acceleration; everything - the whole 911 experience.
I'm now on my third 911 and I've never grown bored by any of these cars like I used to get bored with my bikes within the first few months of a rding season. Shortly after buying that first 911, I stopped riding bikes for the first time since I was a teenager - a span of a few decades and numerous machines.
I never looked back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that 911's are not just about power. Tossing 30 hp into the mix with a 997.2 over a 991.1 doesn't meaningfully alter the experience. That's just not the essence of these cars.
EVERYTHING is dripping with HP these days. You can even get your butt kicked by a Merc or Jeep SUV while driving your Porsche on civilized urban roads, regardless of whether your weapon is a 997.1 or 997.2.
These cars aren't simply about the HP - if you are then you should head over to your local Merc dealer. If you like driving your car - then enjoy it and forget about it.
I'm wondering if the 911 is the one car that can satisfy that need that only motorbikes have been able to. I got really bored with cars for a while, but I've been wanting to get something fun again... To discover that passion for driving again, and maybe even keep me safer than on two wheels. I'm eager to find out if the 911 is THE ONE.
03-12-2017, 09:03 PM
#38
Intermediate
I remember buying my umpteenth bike; a V65 Magna. I was absolutely blown away with the power of that thing - it's acceleration could pull the eyeballs right out of your head.
Every winter I would park that beast in the garage and every spring I would bring it out and get blown away all over again by it's acceleration. And every year, by the end of the riding season I would be pretty much numb too, if not completely bored by the power of that machine.
Then I bought my first 911 - an '87 3.2 Carrera. I drove several hundred miles with my girlfriend to Fruitland, Idaho to pick it up. Even though that Porsche had a small fraction of the acceleration of any of my bikes, I was still overwhelmed by the experience of driving that car - the acceleration; everything - the whole 911 experience.
I'm now on my third 911 and I've never grown bored by any of these cars like I used to get bored with my bikes within the first few months of a rding season. Shortly after buying that first 911, I stopped riding bikes for the first time since I was a teenager - a span of a few decades and numerous machines.
I never looked back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that 911's are not just about power. Tossing 30 hp into the mix with a 997.2 over a 991.1 doesn't meaningfully alter the experience. That's just not the essence of these cars.
EVERYTHING is dripping with HP these days. You can even get your butt kicked by a Merc or Jeep SUV while driving your Porsche on civilized urban roads, regardless of whether your weapon is a 997.1 or 997.2.
These cars aren't simply about the HP - if you are then you should head over to your local Merc dealer. If you like driving your car - then enjoy it and forget about it.
Every winter I would park that beast in the garage and every spring I would bring it out and get blown away all over again by it's acceleration. And every year, by the end of the riding season I would be pretty much numb too, if not completely bored by the power of that machine.
Then I bought my first 911 - an '87 3.2 Carrera. I drove several hundred miles with my girlfriend to Fruitland, Idaho to pick it up. Even though that Porsche had a small fraction of the acceleration of any of my bikes, I was still overwhelmed by the experience of driving that car - the acceleration; everything - the whole 911 experience.
I'm now on my third 911 and I've never grown bored by any of these cars like I used to get bored with my bikes within the first few months of a rding season. Shortly after buying that first 911, I stopped riding bikes for the first time since I was a teenager - a span of a few decades and numerous machines.
I never looked back.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that 911's are not just about power. Tossing 30 hp into the mix with a 997.2 over a 991.1 doesn't meaningfully alter the experience. That's just not the essence of these cars.
EVERYTHING is dripping with HP these days. You can even get your butt kicked by a Merc or Jeep SUV while driving your Porsche on civilized urban roads, regardless of whether your weapon is a 997.1 or 997.2.
These cars aren't simply about the HP - if you are then you should head over to your local Merc dealer. If you like driving your car - then enjoy it and forget about it.
03-12-2017, 11:14 PM
#39
Team Owner
If you are a bike guy you will enjoy the 911. It has that same "rip!" Its not like an American V8, more like a bike. This was very noticeable back when I was into bikes and 911s were air cooled and I was a lot younger ( 1980's). The normally aspirated flat 6 has its own special note. To be fair the air cooled ones even more so since no water jacket to null all the mechanical whirling of gears and chains to boot. Still, go do some driving. With the windows down.
03-12-2017, 11:22 PM
#40
If you are a bike guy you will enjoy the 911. It has that same "rip!" Its not like an American V8, more like a bike. This was very noticeable back when I was into bikes and 911s were air cooled and I was a lot younger ( 1980's). The normally aspirated flat 6 has its own special note. To be fair the air cooled ones even more so since no water jacket to null all the mechanical whirling of gears and chains to boot. Still, go do some driving. With the windows down.
03-13-2017, 12:25 AM
#41
Team Owner
Between the age of 18 and 35 I had 16 bikes. Most were dirt & motocross. A few street bikes. The best handling way back when was a '74 Triumph TR. My first was a '64 TT Special in '67. And yes, I added the factory tuck under pipes and some paint to be just like Steve McQueens ride. The single carb TR was customized by me with some fitted Dunstall goodies like a tank and twin disk front forks. I made a tail fairing seat and adapted a VW type 4 oil cooler in the tail with vents. A different exhaust and since I only had a lathe and no mill I used a face plate and made an adaptor to fit a 38mm Mikuni carb. Flipped the shifter and moved the brake back, clip on's and what was know as a cafe racer long before you could buy a "sports bike". Being much older now, the 911 does the trick.
03-13-2017, 08:04 AM
#42
Moderator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hard to believe this thread originated in 2011... But it's still relevant.
Since my first reply about 997.1 v 997.2 I sold my 997.2 and bought a low-mile 993 C2S. What I wanted was a "new" 993 that had a more visceral spirit than even the 997.1 C2S did. Many suggest that the 2005 997 was the evolution of the 993 - a sort of leap-frog over the 996. I found that to be true, that the 2nd generation water cooled had worked through some of the aesthetic experimentation of the 996. What I enjoy about the 993 is that you are even more connected to the machine and road than in the 997.1. Very little "electronic" yet still enough comfort for even mundane trips. Pollen filter and AC that works well makes a difference over earlier air cooled Porsches.
Today I still have "Red" and have also finally gotten myself into motorcycling. It started when I turned 50 and I restored a 1981 R65 over the winter. A season with that bike on local roads lead me to buy a pristine 1999 R1100R Special Edition (black tank with white pin stripes, spoke wheels, heated grips, and ABS). A season with that lead me to a mint 2004 R1150RT for light touring.
When I was younger and evolving from student to instructor at the track, I chased maximum performance of engine, suspension, and brakes. Once I retired from the track my goals shifted to maximum enjoyment. The 993 and the BMW "Oilheads" really capture that spirit.
Since my first reply about 997.1 v 997.2 I sold my 997.2 and bought a low-mile 993 C2S. What I wanted was a "new" 993 that had a more visceral spirit than even the 997.1 C2S did. Many suggest that the 2005 997 was the evolution of the 993 - a sort of leap-frog over the 996. I found that to be true, that the 2nd generation water cooled had worked through some of the aesthetic experimentation of the 996. What I enjoy about the 993 is that you are even more connected to the machine and road than in the 997.1. Very little "electronic" yet still enough comfort for even mundane trips. Pollen filter and AC that works well makes a difference over earlier air cooled Porsches.
Today I still have "Red" and have also finally gotten myself into motorcycling. It started when I turned 50 and I restored a 1981 R65 over the winter. A season with that bike on local roads lead me to buy a pristine 1999 R1100R Special Edition (black tank with white pin stripes, spoke wheels, heated grips, and ABS). A season with that lead me to a mint 2004 R1150RT for light touring.
When I was younger and evolving from student to instructor at the track, I chased maximum performance of engine, suspension, and brakes. Once I retired from the track my goals shifted to maximum enjoyment. The 993 and the BMW "Oilheads" really capture that spirit.
03-13-2017, 11:41 AM
#43
Race Car
I have a significant number of laps at Sebring running cat and mouse games with a buddy in his 997.2S PDK. My '07 C4S keeps up with him just fine. There is a very, almost imperceptible acceleration difference on the longer straights due to the shifting speed of the PDK. I doubt it could be measured by anything other than a stop watch. Both of us are instructors with extensive experience at Sebring.
Disclosure: I believe my car was chipped by the one of the previous owners, but I'm not sure. (Sport button disabled and throttle response in Sport mode all the time.)
Disclosure: I believe my car was chipped by the one of the previous owners, but I'm not sure. (Sport button disabled and throttle response in Sport mode all the time.)
03-13-2017, 12:31 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
I have a significant number of laps at Sebring running cat and mouse games with a buddy in his 997.2S PDK. My '07 C4S keeps up with him just fine. There is a very, almost imperceptible acceleration difference on the longer straights due to the shifting speed of the PDK. I doubt it could be measured by anything other than a stop watch. Both of us are instructors with extensive experience at Sebring.
Disclosure: I believe my car was chipped by the one of the previous owners, but I'm not sure. (Sport button disabled and throttle response in Sport mode all the time.)
Disclosure: I believe my car was chipped by the one of the previous owners, but I'm not sure. (Sport button disabled and throttle response in Sport mode all the time.)
I just took a PCA AX class that had one day in the class room and one day driving. We were all beginners, so it became obvious that the driver was the biggest delta in all the cars. I had the second fastest time for the day. I was beat by a few tens of a second by a 997.2 S. I have a base 997.1. One of my laps was faster, but I hit a cone. There were 996 TT, 997 TT, and new 991.2 CS4 and so on... on paper, I should not have been close to any of them. I was just a little more aggressive that day. If the other drivers had more experience, it might not have been close.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we as drivers are part of the equation. If you do not spend time learning how to drive these cars to the edge, the differences will never be truly be utilized.
03-13-2017, 12:50 PM
#45
Instructor
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agree with purrybonker. I'm on my 5th Porsche. Everything from a base 944, to several 911's. they are not only about hp. the difference can probably be felt, but maybe not appreciated unless you are going for track times.