Alan Smithee

OEM wide-body offsets on a narrow-body car looks fine; there are people on here running this combo (along with spacers on the fronts to match the rear look and balance the increase in track). Do a search for threads with photos.

stevepow

Just noticed this on the Reserve Page on the Fuchs site:
"Weitere Größen sind in Vorbereitung" = "Other sizes are in the pipeline"

Cool. These look great to me, the more I see them - better even than the SC PAG version.

Can't wait to see the "Edgy" version.

GVA-SFO

Very interesting topic, thanks.
Being on my 26th non stop year of 911 daily, I should say that I miss the Fuchs look since 2002, ..the year of my latest, i.e.: a 996 C4 cab.

I hope that the next will be a 997, ..with wheels that's looks again like "Porsche" wheels !

So, we have the Italian source that are the OEM for the SC, and we will have the Otto Fuchs "real ones".
But: What's about the Californian brand that just got a double pages ad on the latest Excellence ? (p. 34 & 35), September 2010 issue ?
They named the new company "Fuchs Performance Group" ! ..but the logo is different than Otto Fuchs, i.e.: an "F" letter instead of a fox !!!
Is this an Otto Fuchs distributor ? Or, is this a "third" player ?
(You can also see: fuchsperformance.com)
..a bit confusing, but having choices is great.

Edgy01

If you do a little hunting on Rennlist you will see several postings of mine about Fuchs Racing and their efforts to design a "Fuchs" windmill wheel of their own--but producing them via the much more expensive one-piece DROP FORGED method.

Fuchs Racing is one and the same as the Fuchs Performance group. I am in frequent contact with them and have been advised that their wheels for both narrow and wide body 997 cars will be out this Fall.

What is important to understand is that producing dies is so expensive that the design has to be right from the start. For those of you who recall the Otto Fuchs wheels that were available for 911s from 1967 through 1989, the windmill pattern didn't change much at all during those many years--because the dies are expensive! Along with that factor, Otto (and Porsche) found a considerable following in the windmill design wheel, so they didn't monkey with what was a winner. The Otto Fuchs (Kg) and Fuchs (America) wheels are/will be forged. That is their specialty.

The casting houses will produce an attractive wheel quickly because the investment is relatively low. For forgings, you want to make sure that the design is right so that it doesn't have to be adjusted over time for the various models of Porsches.

The Fuchs Racing or Fuchs Performance Group wheel designs are going to be tailored to the 997 mechanicals--clearing all brakes, and attempt to give the deep dish look that we came to love on the later 911/930 cars of the 1980-1989 years. Because of today's massive brakes they are forced into certain offsets to clear those brakes--which inherently conflicts with the deep dish appearance desire. BUT, Fuchs Racing has been able to make it happen. It's a bit of an optical allusion to do it. I hope to be able to post some real live shots very soon, e.g., on my car.

GVA-SFO

Hello Edgy01,

Well, I understand very well the Forged versus Pressure Cast differences, this is why, in my post, I did not mention at all, the already available, “Casted” "wind mill" wheels, that should have a different appearance compared to the real forged ones.

After hunting a bit in the forum, I do now understand few things, ..that are quite chocking to me : (..I still hope that I did misunderstand few things !!)

First, I did not realized that the brand new "Wind Mill" wheels from Porsche Tequipment (i.e.: the one that are on the SC's), are casted, ..and NOT forged !

Second, I also now understand that Fuchs Racing (USA) has nothing to do with Otto Fuchs KG, in Germany, and will be producing replicas, using the same technology and similar shape as the originals from Otto Fuchs KG !

Third, ..This, after having patented the "Fuchs" name in the USA !!

Well, what would you think if a German company (having no connection at all with Ford USA) would have patented the name "Ford" in Germany and then for example, creating a copy of the GT40, to sell it in Germany, ..and saying that this is made the same as the "original" !

To my eyes, ..it looks like a kind of Chinese Rolex story !
If this is really like that, at least to me, I do not think that this will be the wheels/brand that I would like to have on my car!

Forth, Shall we also understand that the REAL wheels that will be coming very soon from Otto Fuchs KG, the maker of the original, are going to be in trouble in the USA, carrying a name that they may not be able to use in the USA ?

This sound pretty ugly.

Edgy01

You have to understand that the Fuchs Racing guys have been at this for about 3 years. No one was producing a one-piece drop forged wheel in 19 inch sizes that was based upon the Otto Fuchs windmill design.

Fuchs Racing did not patent the name Fuchs in the USA. They have copyright to that name in the USA. However, Fuchs in America has their DESIGNS patented.

During the past few months we have all seen the classic Fuchs wheel produced and sold under Porsche's Tequipment label for the 997 cars. They cranked those out in short order--those wheel are also now being copied in China and can be had for perhaps $400 a copy.

Your grasp of the situation is not correct.

GVA-SFO

..it is possible that my grasp of the situation is not correct, but :

Do you really think that the fact that few "enthusiasts" copyrighted the Fuchs name, having in mind to produce later a wheel using the same technology, with the same type of shape that Otto Fuchs KG was/is doing, is "right" ?

In my eyes, this is a company identity theft, in view of optimizing profit, i.e.: stilling the value that Otto Fuchs KG have accumulated over the years in this industry.

Sure, if this has been done with the full agreement of Otto Fuchs KG, then, this is a very different grasp.
Same comment, if Otto Fuchs KG would have been a defunct company.

But according to what I have read around, none of the above is true, so imagine what will happen at the lawyers department of Otto Fuchs KG very soon..
(This company actively produces forged wheels for the major car manufacturers of the World, and this even also for the aviation business.)
..And, Fuchs Felge ..is only a part of the Otto Fuchs KG group.

Today, we have a bunch of guys with no product ready yet, that copyrighted a name that belongs to someone else, (i.e.: a very large active corporate producing similar products using the same technology), and placing ads in Porsche magazine, ..in such a way to confuse people, ..like I was myself !

Frankly, I doubt that the lawyers at Otto Fuchs KG will remain silent, and then, I'm curious to observe what will happen.

Let's wait and see (who will get the grasp) !

GVA-SFO

At least, for the "old" Porsche guys, the good news is : ..The Original is back :
(see:www.fuchsfelge.de)

Edgy01

What you fail to grasp is that Otto Fuchs WAS not producing a 19 inch (modern dimension) wheel for the 997 or other modern Porsches in their classic windmill pattern. Since Otto had made a business decision not to do that, an American company stepped up to the task.

It was only after Porsche AG had offered them an opportunity to bid on and produce updated windmill wheels for the 911 Sport Classic that Otto Fuchs rethought the reengineering of the classic windmill shape wheel for the modern cars.

alexb76

I totally agree. They should not be able to Copyright a name that is widely known in the Auto industry and is active in producing OEM wheels for many cars today!

It's at minimum confusing to buyers! People using and abusing Fuchs name all over the place. I certainly would only consider Otto Fuchs original wheels instead of "Fuchs Racing America" REPLICA wheels!

BTW, the Otto Fuchs wheels looks absolutely stunning! Much better than the Cast Sport Classic wheels!

Edgy01

Clarification (minor): Fuchs Performance applied for and received the US TRADEMARK for Fuchs (not copyright).

I think we should all take a look at what they have to offer when their wheels become available. I personally see the Otto Fuchs design to have become lifeless and nearly flat from what they used to produce in the 80s.

RollingArt

Have to agree with SFO. Doesn't seem right a firm in the US is using the Fuchs name. The fact that it is taking them so long to bring a product to market is not very confidence inspiring either. Tells me they are struggling with the process. Over three years to build a wheel? Please!

The Otto Fuchs wheel is also better looking than anything we've seen out of the "other" Fuchs. (zippo)

IMHO of coarse.



Phil

Edgy01

I guess a question that can be raised is, does anyone have an 19 inch Otto Fuchs windmill wheel on their 997 today?

Even Otto is having issue making those wheels in 19 inch sizes and offsets.

GVA-SFO

...heuh,
not sure that’s a good question !

Imagine if Rolex, who, for whatever reason, would decide to stop producing the Oyster Perpetual. Scenario: For a certain amount of years, they would stay put with this model.
Do you really believe that this would gives to rights to few guys, ..to decide to apply and copyright for the Rolex name in a certain country, and then would start to produce watches, using the same technologies as Rolex and then plan to sell these watches under the Rolex name ?

In my opinion : No way, José !
This is a very soapy & slippery grasp.

If this becomes a Lawyers fight, do you really think "the few guys in California" will make it against Uncle Otto ..and/or his distributor in the US ?
So, ..even, if they have already some wheels to put on 911's, I'm not sure about what could happen in the near future for the support and warranty for the customers of these wheels !

BoxsterG

wasnt sure if this was posted before. The red 997 and carmona red Cayman are hot with the fuchs on them.

http://fuchsperformance.com/