ADias

You got that right. And from an energy and economics perspective it makes no sense at all. But neither do hybrids and electric cars when the full life/materials cost is taken into account. Gas/diesel continues to be the most total efficient/economic fuel. And there's plenty of oil in this country and around the world, notwithstanding what the crooks in DC say.

The investment we have in our vehicles is at the peril of these looney policies and, we the people, must tell them that we are not going to take it any longer.

PAG is OK with 10% ethanol, but I think it is at the edge. The stuff is corrosive and hygroscopic and can cause havoc with injectors with water and crap created by alcohol reactions deposited at the bottom of the tank. 15% is unacceptable.

todd.

ltc

Contact your local VP Fuels distributor and ask for availability of MS93.
It is also a spec fuel for Rotax kart engines and is fairly common to be available for local kart tracks.
Zero ethanol, unleaded, perfect (motor) octane rating.

ADias

VP Fuels ??

thunderstrike

I read most gas stations are not certified to run 15% ethanol gas. The 15 is average percentage, which means ethanol level can fluctuate +/- 2-3 percentages; and this is where the issue lies: today's cars are not designed to run 18-20% ethanol nor are gas stations certified to run them.

Unless Ethanol consortium decides to fund all gas stations modification to be 15% certified, I think think it will happen.

I heard Ethanol is bad for direct pistion injection cars... I put "no ethanol" gas in my wife's SLK280.

ADias

I presume you meant '[E15] will not happen'.

Where do you readily find ethanol-free gas?

mdrums

When I do DE's at Sebring they sell Sunoco 93 NO ETHANOL and to be honest I can't tell any difference between this fuel and the Sunoco 93 I fill up with before I leave home tha has up to 10% Ethanol.

Also if you really have to have no Ethanol check with your local marina and see if they are still selling non ethanol fuel....most still do and see if they will let you fill up there. My opinion is it is not worth the hassle.

We can write our congressman and other government officals about this but they will not and do not care nor listen.

DJ23

Question, does adding a good octane booster help offset the addition of any Ethanol?

Jay

ADias

No. The added volume is negligible compared to the bulk fuel and as far as octane, ethanol already is an octane booster.

ADias

Michael: The issue is not performance. I do not expect gas-free ethanol to perform better than E10 for the same gas grade. Actually, E10 may have better performance, but worse fuel mileage.

The issue to me is engine/fuel system longevity. Ethanol is highly corrosive and it is hygroscopic. All manufacturers, including PAG, advise against running empty (below the bottom 1/4 tank) when using E10, given the likelihood of the presence of water and corrosive debris caused by ethanol at the bottom of the tank. That is the issue.

brendo

it's one big scam, the farm lobby.

i hitched a ride at the 12 hrs of sebring a couple years ago with some junior lobbyist from the E85 coalition. i asked a simple question about the energy balance of ethanol and he went nuts on me. i really thought he was going to stop the golf cart.

as a recovering engineer pretty familiar with how to calculate the energy balance, i'm not sure my professors would have brought "war" and "human life" into the assumptions.

ADias

We live in a 'nutty' world and it has got worse as of late.

.

RollingArt

Well, actually the reason for not running your tank at low fuel levels for extended time periods is that when the fuel level is low, the amount of air in the tank is high. As you've stated the ethanol is hygroscopic, when there is a large amount of air in the tank (low fuel level) there is a correspondingly larger amount of moisture lurking in the tank, just waiting to be absorbed by the ethanol. This is why stored cars should be stored with fuel tank topped up. Topped up = no moisture lurking in tank.

As far as availability of ethanal free gas in CA., as Mark stated, VP Fuels sells several unleaded eth free fuels. C-10 and MS93 both meet that spec. R+M/2 oct. rating of 100 and 94.5 respectively. Cost is approx. $6.00 gal.

Here's the catch with those fuels. They are not CARB(CA air resources board)-legal fuels for road use. The ethanol is an oxygenator that helps fuel burn cleaner at cold temps.. I've seen you scold others for removing the cats from their cars, well this is a simular issue. If you want to be PC, run the ethanol.

On a side note, just yesterday I topped my car off with VP100. This is an oxygenated with ethanol, CARB legal, 100 octane fuel, that is sold at the pump throughout CA. Still has the ethanol in it, but is legal to burn on the highway, and has super high octane rating. VP actually recommends mixing it with premium gas in areas that only have 91 octane available at the pumps, (like CA) for cars that call for higher octane (Porsche). Cost was $6.06 per gal.

Maybe a solution to your dilemma of one day being faced with only E15 at the pump would be to blend in some VP, C-10 with the E-15 and lower the ethanol and raise the octane for a more compatible fuel for the 911.

Hope this helps.
Wishing us good luck for the future!



Phil

ADias

I'm all for clean air and low pollution and cat use. I stop at the looney CARB reqs though. These are the people who brought us the MTBE aquifer poison and now to save face or continue their looney crusade bring us this garbage. Porsches pass all emissions reqs with std ethanol-free gas. Actually, PAG is known to recommend ethanol-free gas if available.

stevepow

Gotta wonder if it is not the ethanol that is getting it to 100 Octane?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating