Wow ZR1 runs a 7:26 at the Ring!
06-29-2008, 08:58 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
I agree with those saying that PAG already have a mid-engine design. Actually 2: the Cayman and the CGT.
Why can't the 911 have a bigger engine out in the rear? The 997TT already produces 480HP and I imagine that the newly designed 997Mk2 engine is capable of up to 450HP in NA form and close to 600HP in turbo form. No reason this engine could not be increased to 4.0l or even 4.5l. The issue in my view is not the architecture - it is PAG deciding that it's about time to compete. I suspect they turned the corner on that - the new 997MK2 is quite an improvement. I did not consider the 997 to be competition to my '08 C6; I think that the new 997Mk2 is.
OTOH I suspect the HP race is coming to an end with all the political pressure worldwide. PAG did well w/ the 997Mk2 launch - more power and better economy to appease the green masses.
Why can't the 911 have a bigger engine out in the rear? The 997TT already produces 480HP and I imagine that the newly designed 997Mk2 engine is capable of up to 450HP in NA form and close to 600HP in turbo form. No reason this engine could not be increased to 4.0l or even 4.5l. The issue in my view is not the architecture - it is PAG deciding that it's about time to compete. I suspect they turned the corner on that - the new 997MK2 is quite an improvement. I did not consider the 997 to be competition to my '08 C6; I think that the new 997Mk2 is.
OTOH I suspect the HP race is coming to an end with all the political pressure worldwide. PAG did well w/ the 997Mk2 launch - more power and better economy to appease the green masses.
Last edited by ADias; 06-29-2008 at 10:57 PM.
06-30-2008, 11:07 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Just a petty styling comment... that translucent engine peek-a-boo on the Vette is just silly. Just as all the non-functional front fender chrome accents we are seeing lately. Lipstick on a ....
06-30-2008, 11:20 AM
#18
I'd MUCH rather have a nice Z06 with tasteful mods and redone interior. But that's just me.
Z06 would be nice with ceramic brakes and race seats...
Last edited by zizu; 06-30-2008 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Quote
06-30-2008, 11:35 AM
#19
Race Director
06-30-2008, 11:42 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
No doubt that the ZR-1 deserves major kudos for that ring time: the car clearly has the handling and braking to accompany the insane HP.
Frankly, I could care less what the various ring times are in my buying decisions (I am guessing that 90% of people buying a Carrera model feel the same way).
Part of the Z06/ZR1 success is due to the fact that they weigh some 500 pounds less than a 911 turbo.
I think Porsche should either
1) Stick with the culture of a rear-engine design and incorporate lightweight materials to trim 500 pounds out of the Carrera
or
2) Ditch the rear seats and go with a rear-mid engine design (oooh, how about that Audi R8 platform,....hmmmm).
Frankly, I could care less what the various ring times are in my buying decisions (I am guessing that 90% of people buying a Carrera model feel the same way).
Part of the Z06/ZR1 success is due to the fact that they weigh some 500 pounds less than a 911 turbo.
I think Porsche should either
1) Stick with the culture of a rear-engine design and incorporate lightweight materials to trim 500 pounds out of the Carrera
or
2) Ditch the rear seats and go with a rear-mid engine design (oooh, how about that Audi R8 platform,....hmmmm).
06-30-2008, 12:29 PM
#21
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I hope they don't do that, I actually like/need the rear seats for kid transport. It's easier to justify a car with small backseats that the kids can fit in than a car with only two seats (I reason I didn't buy the GT3).
06-30-2008, 12:31 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Whether we care for the Corvette or not, being able to create a car that matches the best of Zuffenhausen and Maranello for a fraction of the cost and enginnering budget is a great achievement! I have seen some Z06s on the track, and in the hands of a capable driver they are faster than anything. To be honest the Z06 is the first Vette I have ever considered and if I could afford a 4 to 6 car garage at $50K used I would certainly have one.
06-30-2008, 02:33 PM
#23
Race Director
Honestly Porsche should develop the Cayman and out a 3.8L engine in it and let it fly! Problem with that is I am too tall to fit in a Cayman and would have to switch brands for my sport car unless Porsche designed the Cayman for some more rearward seat travel.
06-30-2008, 03:30 PM
#24
No doubt that the ZR-1 deserves major kudos for that ring time: the car clearly has the handling and braking to accompany the insane HP.
I think Porsche should either
1) Stick with the culture of a rear-engine design and incorporate lightweight materials to trim 500 pounds out of the Carrera
or
2) Ditch the rear seats and go with a rear-mid engine design (oooh, how about that Audi R8 platform,....hmmmm).
I think Porsche should either
1) Stick with the culture of a rear-engine design and incorporate lightweight materials to trim 500 pounds out of the Carrera
or
2) Ditch the rear seats and go with a rear-mid engine design (oooh, how about that Audi R8 platform,....hmmmm).
My ideal 911 would be a mid-engined, no back seat GT3/RS
06-30-2008, 04:53 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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In my base C2, I have more car than I will ever need. My local speed limit is 75 on the highway. The C2 can probably do a bit more. Just because some of the competition is going for more speed/power doesn't necessarily mean Porsche should. Just as the mountain-goat-like climbing capabilities of most SUVs never get used, I suspect the majority of sports cars never see a track. IMHO Porsche should focus more on weight saving and better fule efficiency. Speaking of-wonder what the mpg is on the other cars?
06-30-2008, 05:12 PM
#26
Racer
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In my base C2, I have more car than I will ever need. My local speed limit is 75 on the highway. The C2 can probably do a bit more. Just because some of the competition is going for more speed/power doesn't necessarily mean Porsche should. Just as the mountain-goat-like climbing capabilities of most SUVs never get used, I suspect the majority of sports cars never see a track. IMHO Porsche should focus more on weight saving and better fule efficiency. Speaking of-wonder what the mpg is on the other cars?
06-30-2008, 06:30 PM
#27
Nordschleife Master
In my base C2, I have more car than I will ever need. My local speed limit is 75 on the highway. The C2 can probably do a bit more. Just because some of the competition is going for more speed/power doesn't necessarily mean Porsche should. Just as the mountain-goat-like climbing capabilities of most SUVs never get used, I suspect the majority of sports cars never see a track. IMHO Porsche should focus more on weight saving and better fule efficiency. Speaking of-wonder what the mpg is on the other cars?
HP is not only for top speed. High power means high torque, as
Torque = d (Power) / d(RPM)
A high linear power curve means high flat torque, usable all the time, even if top speed isn't.
P.S. - re Vette's gas mileage... it's possible to achieve 30MPG if you do not drive over 65MPH on the highway. I average 21MPG city/highway driving and I like to drive spiritedly.
06-30-2008, 07:56 PM
#28
Race Director
Trust me...I use all the power available in my Carrera S and could use more.
06-30-2008, 10:55 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
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There IS: http://www.farnbacherloles.com/perfo.../info/?id=2972
FBL GTR which has a 3.8 X51 engine with ECU work. Full Cross coilovers.
Deanski
FBL GTR which has a 3.8 X51 engine with ECU work. Full Cross coilovers.
Deanski
06-30-2008, 11:02 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
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Yea, I too looked at the Z06 when they first came out seeing that I had a 1969 L-88 Vette years ago. That was a sick car.
As for the Z06, I just could not get over the cheezy interior. Great HP and handling, but then feels like it plows. Interesting show I did see was the show "Ultimate Factories" they show how they make the Z06. Other shows... The big red car mfg in Italy. Very nice as well.
I got the Porsche due to the history, performance, engineering, and unique designs.
Deanski
As for the Z06, I just could not get over the cheezy interior. Great HP and handling, but then feels like it plows. Interesting show I did see was the show "Ultimate Factories" they show how they make the Z06. Other shows... The big red car mfg in Italy. Very nice as well.
I got the Porsche due to the history, performance, engineering, and unique designs.
Deanski