repost
#16
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Two things - it is my understanding that Porsche does bench test engines and road test each car as well. I suspect the break-in is done then and probably consistent with the "work" it hard" theory.
Why then does Porsche specify a break-in period for the car? I believe the reason has to do with other components, the transmission, differential, Air conditioning compressor etc. When we break in a car, we always think of the engine, in fact there are a lot of other mechanical parts moving and that's the reason the factory specs a break-in period.
Item Two - OCben, I'd appreciate it if you'd be more polite. You can disagree with someone without getting belligerent. Insults have no place on these forums and I am disinclined to endure them.
Regards,
Why then does Porsche specify a break-in period for the car? I believe the reason has to do with other components, the transmission, differential, Air conditioning compressor etc. When we break in a car, we always think of the engine, in fact there are a lot of other mechanical parts moving and that's the reason the factory specs a break-in period.
Item Two - OCben, I'd appreciate it if you'd be more polite. You can disagree with someone without getting belligerent. Insults have no place on these forums and I am disinclined to endure them.
Regards,
#18
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Two things - it is my understanding that Porsche does bench test engines and road test each car as well. I suspect the break-in is done then and probably consistent with the "work" it hard" theory.
Why then does Porsche specify a break-in period for the car? I believe the reason has to do with other components, the transmission, differential, Air conditioning compressor etc. When we break in a car, we always think of the engine, in fact there are a lot of other mechanical parts moving and that's the reason the factory specs a break-in period.
Item Two - OCben, I'd appreciate it if you'd be more polite. You can disagree with someone without getting belligerent. Insults have no place on these forums and I am disinclined to endure them.
Regards,
Why then does Porsche specify a break-in period for the car? I believe the reason has to do with other components, the transmission, differential, Air conditioning compressor etc. When we break in a car, we always think of the engine, in fact there are a lot of other mechanical parts moving and that's the reason the factory specs a break-in period.
Item Two - OCben, I'd appreciate it if you'd be more polite. You can disagree with someone without getting belligerent. Insults have no place on these forums and I am disinclined to endure them.
Regards,
#19
Originally Posted by Soulteacher
Yaaaaaawnnnn...
We have like, what, over 50 threads on this topic already? I'd rather see Vancouver's girls again than more of this bla bla.
But that's just me.
We have like, what, over 50 threads on this topic already? I'd rather see Vancouver's girls again than more of this bla bla.
But that's just me.
#20
Rennlist Member
Thanks Bob. With whatever respect might be due, it's about time someone tried to reign in the self proclaimed Omnipotently Cerebral one. Boorishness is not attractive on a web forum either.
#21
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Chris - I am not going to take sides. The point is that the tolerance for insults, boorish and belligerent behavior has been severely reduced by Rennlist.
#22
Banned
Originally Posted by Chris C.
Boorishness is not attractive on a web forum either.
For the record, this kid in question frequents our 997 forum and, after over 1000 posts, outright refuses to support John D's site by becoming a Rennlist Member, even after many of us have tried to convince him to do the right thing. He likes to harshly criticize others for their personal choices (speaking of boorishness) and often misleads others with his misinformation, requiring on more than one occasion for someone to step in and correct the bad information before someone is led astray.
Most of us ignore him for the most part, as evidenced by the last thread that he started, complete with pics, and nobody replied.
In fact, one Rennlist Member just PM'd me the following:
I have to say, I was delighted to read your reply to MMD in the break-in thread: "reading comic books again"
That guy's posts annoy me. I didn't want to state this publicly...
That guy's posts annoy me. I didn't want to state this publicly...
#23
Three Wheelin'
So let's all buy a perfectly run in ex PDE car...
Originally Posted by Pugnacious
When I was at PDE on March 14-15 the cars we were using all had starting mileages of under 700 miles (the 997 track cars get about 200 miles put on them in a two day program) and on the second day when we were allowed to downshift to third we were routinely shifting from 3rd to 4th at or very near red line and the Boxster and Boxster S used in the autocross were red lined at full throttle in first and then at or near full throttle and red line in 2nd gear a couple of times on each lap so it doesn’t appear Porsche is too concerned about full throttle and high rpm as they sell the cars to dealers who then retail them with the remainder of the 4 year/50,000 mile factory warranty. I will add that the PDE cars due to track constraints were never allowed to remain at full throttle and high rpm for any length of time before coming completely off throttle and going to (usually to full) brake.
Either these cars are correctly run in, or they're not. If you recommend "driving it like you stole it" during the running in period, would you put down your own money and by an ex PDE car? Let's have a show of hands on that one!
#24
Race Director
Well, my wife and I went to a local dealer to test drive a C2S and C4S to feel the differance last weekend. The salesman brought the C2S from around back because they just got it off the truck the day before and it just got through check in. Brand spanking new with 9 miles on the odometer. I go 1st while the wife waits and right out of the parking lot the salesperson nails it all the way to redline in 1st and 2nd. We go right out to the interstate and he nails it again through 1-2-3 right up past 100mph. So much for break in! He said the manual is all lawyer speak and the engines are dyno'd at Porsche and no need for break in.
#25
I hate it when these salesperson "nail" these new cars. It really bugs me, because if you do end up buying this car and it has problems...the on board computer will show that the engine experienced high revs. during break in and blame it on you.
#26
Originally Posted by Le Chef
And interestingly reading past threads on this forum and others that most people who are offered these cars avoid them, and are encouraged to avoid them by other posters. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Either these cars are correctly run in, or they're not. If you recommend "driving it like you stole it" during the running in period, would you put down your own money and by an ex PDE car? Let's have a show of hands on that one!
Either these cars are correctly run in, or they're not. If you recommend "driving it like you stole it" during the running in period, would you put down your own money and by an ex PDE car? Let's have a show of hands on that one!
I never suggested that I would buy (or should anyone else for that matter buy) a PDE car. The point I was trying to make about the PDE cars is that Porsche doesn’t seem to be too concerned about “proper” break-in as they stand behind the PDE cars for the full duration of the warranty with no exclusions as to coverage. That was the only point I was attempting to make.
#27
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago area, IL USA
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Originally Posted by mdrums
Well, my wife and I went to a local dealer to test drive a C2S and C4S to feel the differance last weekend. The salesman brought the C2S from around back because they just got it off the truck the day before and it just got through check in. Brand spanking new with 9 miles on the odometer. I go 1st while the wife waits and right out of the parking lot the salesperson nails it all the way to redline in 1st and 2nd. We go right out to the interstate and he nails it again through 1-2-3 right up past 100mph. So much for break in! He said the manual is all lawyer speak and the engines are dyno'd at Porsche and no need for break in.
As a mechanical engineer who has designed reciprocating machinery, I can tell you that all mechanical devices (especially internal combustion engines) can benefit from a staged break-in of some sort.
Clearances are tight, and sliding components (like pistons, rings and cam followers) will benefit from reduced power operation initially.
As someone stated earlier, with today's metallurgy and manufacturing techniques, the first 20 miles are probably more important than the first 2,000. That being said, I'm not sure if you want that car, Mdrums...
We're probably done here, eh?
-don
#28
Three Wheelin'
A Couple of Points
Originally Posted by Pugnacious
The point I was trying to make about the PDE cars is that Porsche doesn’t seem to be too concerned about “proper” break-in as they stand behind the PDE cars for the full duration of the warranty with no exclusions as to coverage. That was the only point I was attempting to make.
When people claim you should "drive it like you stole it" they are often the ones who say they wouldn't buy a car that had been driven like this.
Second Porsche may not care, but if they set double standards (how the cars are driven at PDE and how sales guys drive them out of the box vs. recommendations in the instruction book) they can expect the consumer to complain. And rightly so if warranty is denied later because of the way the car has been driven.
#29
Originally Posted by Le Chef
It wasn't meant as an attack on you but to make a couple of general points about double standards.
When people claim you should "drive it like you stole it" they are often the ones who say they wouldn't buy a car that had been driven like this.
Second Porsche may not care, but if they set double standards (how the cars are driven at PDE and how sales guys drive them out of the box vs. recommendations in the instruction book) they can expect the consumer to complain. And rightly so if warranty is denied later because of the way the car has been driven.
When people claim you should "drive it like you stole it" they are often the ones who say they wouldn't buy a car that had been driven like this.
Second Porsche may not care, but if they set double standards (how the cars are driven at PDE and how sales guys drive them out of the box vs. recommendations in the instruction book) they can expect the consumer to complain. And rightly so if warranty is denied later because of the way the car has been driven.
#30
Originally Posted by Le Chef
And interestingly reading past threads on this forum and others that most people who are offered these cars avoid them, and are encouraged to avoid them by other posters. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Either these cars are correctly run in, or they're not. If you recommend "driving it like you stole it" during the running in period, would you put down your own money and by an ex PDE car? Let's have a show of hands on that one!
Either these cars are correctly run in, or they're not. If you recommend "driving it like you stole it" during the running in period, would you put down your own money and by an ex PDE car? Let's have a show of hands on that one!
When I picked up my CS in Zuff, I spoke to "some people" at the factory as well and they told me X51 engines are definitely broken in at the assembly line. I was concerned since I was going to the ring. What he told me was what I did with all my porsches, vary engine speed with forays to peak hp rpm but not too long there. No sustained running at over 5000rpm for the first 500 miles. Of course he's just a senior engineer at PAG. I keep my cars for a minimum of 8 years so I tend to like longevity in the engines.
my 2 cents