Non Rennlist Members and the Reasons Why They Remain So.
11-07-2005, 03:53 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Non Rennlist Members and the Reasons Why They Remain So.
Just trying to get an understanding of the reasons why longtime users of this forum don’t (or maybe flat out refuse to) sign up as Rennlist Members. There are several who post regularly here, some with over a thousand posts and counting. Yet, for some reason, they persist, obstinately it seems, to use this forum at the expense of those of us who understand and appreciate the value here, and are more than willing to step up and show our support.
We all know it takes resources to keep this site up and running, and we’ve already beaten on this issue of what we can do to ensure that Rennlist is able to procure the resources necessary for speedy throughput on a consistent basis. That’s not what this is about. Everyone knows it takes funds to do this, and we paying members know that’s the main reason we are proud to be recognized as Rennlist Members – as a show of support.
I can’t speak for the management here, but if they were counting on peer pressure to get regular users to sign up, it’s unfortunately not working very well, perhaps because of the anonymous nature of internet forums. To be honest with you, the main reason I signed up was because I was starting to feel guilty posting inquiries and receiving invaluable help from Rennlist Members in selecting my options on my ordered car. So yes, in my case subtle peer pressure in the form of guilt worked. But why does it work for some and not for others? Why do some longtime non-members persist in taking a free ride at the expense of others? Is it because that’s just who they are – individuals who try to beat the system at every chance they get in life if they can get away with it, especially if anonymously? At less than 5¢ a day, we can rule out the hit to our pocketbook as a reason. But really, there must be a reason why some users after a hundred or so posts don’t feel a need to do the honorable thing and become a paying member.
Do you ever feel guilty when watching a PBS broadcast that you’re really enjoying, and during a promotional break you’re being asked to help keep PBS on the air with your contributions and donations, that it’s through viewers like you that help keep PBS on the air? Well, consider this thread to be similar in intent. But a major difference between the two media is that non-members who post regularly (especially with pics) are actually affecting the performance of the system for the rest of us.
So, what are some of the reasons for non-membership that you guys can think of? Oh yeah, you non-members especially, let us know what you think. This is not an opportunity for bashing – flame suits not required. We’d really like to know your honest opinions.
We all know it takes resources to keep this site up and running, and we’ve already beaten on this issue of what we can do to ensure that Rennlist is able to procure the resources necessary for speedy throughput on a consistent basis. That’s not what this is about. Everyone knows it takes funds to do this, and we paying members know that’s the main reason we are proud to be recognized as Rennlist Members – as a show of support.
I can’t speak for the management here, but if they were counting on peer pressure to get regular users to sign up, it’s unfortunately not working very well, perhaps because of the anonymous nature of internet forums. To be honest with you, the main reason I signed up was because I was starting to feel guilty posting inquiries and receiving invaluable help from Rennlist Members in selecting my options on my ordered car. So yes, in my case subtle peer pressure in the form of guilt worked. But why does it work for some and not for others? Why do some longtime non-members persist in taking a free ride at the expense of others? Is it because that’s just who they are – individuals who try to beat the system at every chance they get in life if they can get away with it, especially if anonymously? At less than 5¢ a day, we can rule out the hit to our pocketbook as a reason. But really, there must be a reason why some users after a hundred or so posts don’t feel a need to do the honorable thing and become a paying member.
Do you ever feel guilty when watching a PBS broadcast that you’re really enjoying, and during a promotional break you’re being asked to help keep PBS on the air with your contributions and donations, that it’s through viewers like you that help keep PBS on the air? Well, consider this thread to be similar in intent. But a major difference between the two media is that non-members who post regularly (especially with pics) are actually affecting the performance of the system for the rest of us.
So, what are some of the reasons for non-membership that you guys can think of? Oh yeah, you non-members especially, let us know what you think. This is not an opportunity for bashing – flame suits not required. We’d really like to know your honest opinions.
11-07-2005, 04:21 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
I'm probably going to open the car of worms here, but here it goes...
Having been a member of various boards for several years, as well as owning and operating one of my own, I understand both sides of the story here.
The boards are a great source of info for many. Technical, social, whatever the reason it is a source of knowledge and entertainment. There are several things that need to happen in order for a BBS to continue growing and operating, $$ is one issue, membership is another. And I'm not saying membership = $.
Rennlist is the first board that I have joined that allows for a subscription. Granted, there really aren't any benefits to the subscription other than the esteem confidence booster of having "Rennlist Member" under their handle and possibly a sticker in the mail.
I am a rennlist member, whether it's for the right or wrong reasons is up to you to decide. The reason why I joined is because I wanted to be a member from the get-go.
However, to be perfectly honest, what difference does it make if I was a member or not? It shouldn't. Do my thoughts or comments have more weight if I'm a member? Perhaps my comments will sound more knowledgeable if I was a member? Or does it make me socially "cool"?
This board would run regardless of its subscription service. I am not quite sure what the membership is paying for in terms of online amenities...sure, we can get the webspace or the email if we wanted, but that's not why you pay for the membership fee. Most people think they are paying for the maintenance and operating costs of the board. I am aware of several boards, and don't forget I ran one myself...it doesn't cost very much to run the site. Bandwidth might be an issue depending on your host, but a few ads will take care of that cost nicely.
Moderators tend to be free. And the graphics are usually done by the owner or perhaps even members of the boards themselves. (contest, friend, etc) Throw in the sponsorships from tuners and what-not...it seems that the membership fee is simply a profit-based decision on the site owner. That's ok, I'm a businessman myself, and I see no harm in having an allowance for a "donation". Afterall, it is completely voluntary. But when you start discriminating or securing thoughts based on whether somebody is a paid member or not...that is discouraging.
I think the real reason why I got the membership was so I could add my sig.
Having been a member of various boards for several years, as well as owning and operating one of my own, I understand both sides of the story here.
The boards are a great source of info for many. Technical, social, whatever the reason it is a source of knowledge and entertainment. There are several things that need to happen in order for a BBS to continue growing and operating, $$ is one issue, membership is another. And I'm not saying membership = $.
Rennlist is the first board that I have joined that allows for a subscription. Granted, there really aren't any benefits to the subscription other than the esteem confidence booster of having "Rennlist Member" under their handle and possibly a sticker in the mail.
I am a rennlist member, whether it's for the right or wrong reasons is up to you to decide. The reason why I joined is because I wanted to be a member from the get-go.
However, to be perfectly honest, what difference does it make if I was a member or not? It shouldn't. Do my thoughts or comments have more weight if I'm a member? Perhaps my comments will sound more knowledgeable if I was a member? Or does it make me socially "cool"?
This board would run regardless of its subscription service. I am not quite sure what the membership is paying for in terms of online amenities...sure, we can get the webspace or the email if we wanted, but that's not why you pay for the membership fee. Most people think they are paying for the maintenance and operating costs of the board. I am aware of several boards, and don't forget I ran one myself...it doesn't cost very much to run the site. Bandwidth might be an issue depending on your host, but a few ads will take care of that cost nicely.
Moderators tend to be free. And the graphics are usually done by the owner or perhaps even members of the boards themselves. (contest, friend, etc) Throw in the sponsorships from tuners and what-not...it seems that the membership fee is simply a profit-based decision on the site owner. That's ok, I'm a businessman myself, and I see no harm in having an allowance for a "donation". Afterall, it is completely voluntary. But when you start discriminating or securing thoughts based on whether somebody is a paid member or not...that is discouraging.
I think the real reason why I got the membership was so I could add my sig.
11-07-2005, 04:43 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Whether right or wrong, I think it is mostly the lack of incentive to join and the inherent problem that most people are lazy. I joined because I look at this Board as a club and you got to pay to play. I feel like a member now that I am a member. I felt like an outsider when I was not a member.
Personally, I really do give more credance to posts from co-members as a sign of respect. You're either in or you're not and if you're not, you're trolling.
How's that?
(OK. Maybe 'trolling' is a bit harsh. But flames from non-members are ignored)
Personally, I really do give more credance to posts from co-members as a sign of respect. You're either in or you're not and if you're not, you're trolling.
How's that?
(OK. Maybe 'trolling' is a bit harsh. But flames from non-members are ignored)
11-07-2005, 05:05 PM
#6
Banned
Thread Starter
Yeah I agree with the lack of incentive here to join, and site management will have to take the blame for that, especially if they really do count on membership dues to keep this site up and humming along.
But as for valuing opinions, I personally evaluate all opinions on their own merits, regardless of membership status, and don’t discount the views of nonmembers just because. But I admit I tend to show more respect toward fellow "club" members, and feel a sense of camaraderie by being a member.
But as for valuing opinions, I personally evaluate all opinions on their own merits, regardless of membership status, and don’t discount the views of nonmembers just because. But I admit I tend to show more respect toward fellow "club" members, and feel a sense of camaraderie by being a member.
11-07-2005, 05:10 PM
#7
Race Car
I can think of at least 20 posters here that are not members that only contribute answers to the board participants and either seldom or never ask a question. I guess if you're looking to loose the benefit of their knowledge, then get rid of us. JMO.
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11-07-2005, 05:12 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
I understand what you guys are saying with respect to members vs. non-members, I just disagree.
I don't give any "member" more weight when it comes to their response or even their question. I treat each person with respect. Some people are going to be a-holes. Just because they're a member doesn't mean I have to think they are more or less of an a-hole.
The "rennlist member" tag is nothing more than a badge of sponsorship. If it makes you feel good to be a sponsor, then so be it. But I'm fairly certain that the owner(s) of this site would be somewhat perturbed by seeing that ANY of it's members were discriminating based on their paid membership. They are a member of rennlist, whether a paid member or not...they dig P-cars, they may own one and they may not. As long as they get something out of it, that's all that matters to me. And if they want to show their appreciation by supporting the forum with a donation, then so be it. But it does not qualify a person in any way, IMO.
Take the guy that loves p-cars but has never had the opportunity to purchase....yet they come to rennlist and have tons of info to share as well as to learn...I would feel somewhat foolish supporting an enthusiast board that is solely based and geared towards the p-car owner. Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and the world would be a much more boring place if we all agreed on everything.
I don't give any "member" more weight when it comes to their response or even their question. I treat each person with respect. Some people are going to be a-holes. Just because they're a member doesn't mean I have to think they are more or less of an a-hole.
The "rennlist member" tag is nothing more than a badge of sponsorship. If it makes you feel good to be a sponsor, then so be it. But I'm fairly certain that the owner(s) of this site would be somewhat perturbed by seeing that ANY of it's members were discriminating based on their paid membership. They are a member of rennlist, whether a paid member or not...they dig P-cars, they may own one and they may not. As long as they get something out of it, that's all that matters to me. And if they want to show their appreciation by supporting the forum with a donation, then so be it. But it does not qualify a person in any way, IMO.
Take the guy that loves p-cars but has never had the opportunity to purchase....yet they come to rennlist and have tons of info to share as well as to learn...I would feel somewhat foolish supporting an enthusiast board that is solely based and geared towards the p-car owner. Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and the world would be a much more boring place if we all agreed on everything.
11-07-2005, 05:23 PM
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 1999Porsche911
I can think of at least 20 posters here that are not members that only contribute answers to the board participants and either seldom or never ask a question.
But you bring up an interesting point. Do you feel that because you might provide useful answers to others that you should be allowed "honorary" membership, or something like that? I see nothing wrong with that point of view. If I were an expert in some useful field to the membership here I would expect my participation to be welcomed, if not compensated for. So I appreciate that view point. ... But I don't think anybody here qualifies for such status. And being a "sponsor" of this site is not a bad thing to be.
11-07-2005, 05:30 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Just so all you non-members don't blow out an artery, I was kidding about the trolling comment. 
But its close to quitting time here so why not throw a bit of fuel on the fire. So reeeeeeelax. Member or non-member, I personally will not discriminate. This place is great for everyone that chooses to participate. In fact, of all the Boards I frequent, this Board has the fewest trolls of them all!
But its close to quitting time here so why not throw a bit of fuel on the fire. So reeeeeeelax. Member or non-member, I personally will not discriminate. This place is great for everyone that chooses to participate. In fact, of all the Boards I frequent, this Board has the fewest trolls of them all!
11-07-2005, 05:34 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Oh Lord, here we go again. Let's see how long this takes to get moved over to Off-Topic. But the irony here is that OT is not available to non-members......thus preventing them from defending their stance.
Maybe we could change it from Rennlist Member to Rennlist Sponsor. Afterall, that is what we are (those that contribute). But....EVERYBODY, regardless of contribution status is a member of this board once registered.
I used to get pissed at those that freeloaded (and still feel they are freeloading) but I have come to the realization that it is just inherent to their personality and CANNOT be changed.
There are many on this board that I value their opinion that are non-contributing (especially 1999Porsche911) as well I have started to help alot of non-members offline b/c I got alot of help before I was "paid up".
BTW, I contribute ALOT to NPR every single year because, guess why? I USE THEIR SERVICE AND WOULD HATE TO SEE THEM GO! Same here. Basic 80/20 economics rule here. 80% of the site funding comes from 20% of the members. Sad, but that is typical in ALL situations simialr to this.
I'll leave everybody with a quick story that is indicitive of what we are experiencing here:
Our local PCA chapter catered lunch at EVERY single DE event that we had and would just put a donations jar on the table. Well, at the last event there was NO lunch. Why? I asked our PCA reps and they said that they were spending about $500 on lunch and getting no more than $75 in the donation jar so they just quit doing it. Sad! Guess what, last event that we had there was an onsite BBQ catering company and they sold 50-60 plates at $10 a plate. Go figure.
Maybe we could change it from Rennlist Member to Rennlist Sponsor. Afterall, that is what we are (those that contribute). But....EVERYBODY, regardless of contribution status is a member of this board once registered.
I used to get pissed at those that freeloaded (and still feel they are freeloading) but I have come to the realization that it is just inherent to their personality and CANNOT be changed.
There are many on this board that I value their opinion that are non-contributing (especially 1999Porsche911) as well I have started to help alot of non-members offline b/c I got alot of help before I was "paid up".
BTW, I contribute ALOT to NPR every single year because, guess why? I USE THEIR SERVICE AND WOULD HATE TO SEE THEM GO! Same here. Basic 80/20 economics rule here. 80% of the site funding comes from 20% of the members. Sad, but that is typical in ALL situations simialr to this.
I'll leave everybody with a quick story that is indicitive of what we are experiencing here:
Our local PCA chapter catered lunch at EVERY single DE event that we had and would just put a donations jar on the table. Well, at the last event there was NO lunch. Why? I asked our PCA reps and they said that they were spending about $500 on lunch and getting no more than $75 in the donation jar so they just quit doing it. Sad! Guess what, last event that we had there was an onsite BBQ catering company and they sold 50-60 plates at $10 a plate. Go figure.
11-07-2005, 05:35 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by 1080iAddict
Just so all you non-members don't blow out an artery, I was kidding about the trolling comment. But its close to quitting time here so why not throw a bit of fuel on the fire. So reeeeeeelax. Member or non-member, I personally will not discriminate. This place is great for everyone that chooses to participate. In fact, of all the Boards I frequent, this Board has the fewest trolls of them all!
But its close to quitting time here so why not throw a bit of fuel on the fire. So reeeeeeelax. Member or non-member, I personally will not discriminate. This place is great for everyone that chooses to participate. In fact, of all the Boards I frequent, this Board has the fewest trolls of them all!
11-07-2005, 05:38 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Its all good. Truth be told, I should think before I post anyway. Truth is, I dont even really think about the member / non-member thing unless its pointed out for some reason, like a free V1 or debate like we have here!.
11-07-2005, 05:54 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
And the movement begins!!! 
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/236889-transfering-personal-settings-from-car-to-car.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/236889-transfering-personal-settings-from-car-to-car.html