997 S in shop for 7th time in 3 months!
11-19-2004, 08:08 PM
#62
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The problem is displayed as a message such as "System Fault - Return To Workshop". The manual statest that this means that one or more systems may have failed, it may be severe, adjust your driving accordingly, visit the workshop, etc. It's not the same thing as the check engine light, and from what I understand it can be triggered in a number of different ways.
For example, on the first couple of visits the error codes said that there was a steering angle fault, and that this had been tripped in multiple parts of the car. The dealer has replaced both parts of the steering angle sensor, but that hasn't solved the problem.
There has also been some evidence that the system faults occur due to a poorly installed "grommet" that seals the doors. In my case this seems to be at least one of the culprits because the faults often occur after the car has been washed, dried, and polished. This has happened at least three times on my car, but it's not the only cause of the faults.
The most recent word is that the front hood latch is causing the faults, although I don't yet know the details of that. In other words, there seem to be multiple gremlins that are causing these faults, and quite frankly no one seems to know how to diagnose or fix them. PCNA techs in Atlanta have had the dealer replace multiple control units, each time saying that this was going to "fix" the problem, but it hasn't.
Regarding the quality of the car, it has been fairly good otherwise, although there are squeaks and creaks that haven't been fixed, and there was the "sunroof" problem. Shortly after buying the car I had washed it and noticed a drop of water on the upper right rear passenger panel. Looking up I saw that the Alcantera headliner was wet in the corner, so obviously there was a leak. The dealer started to take things apart and found that something had been improperly installed, allowing the sunroof drip rail to come lose and water to get into the inside of the car.
So, anyone still think that I don't have a reason to be unhappy with this car? I'm either the most forgiving or stupid customer that Porsche could have asked for.
The dealer is keeping the car over the weekend, so it's quite obvious to me that they haven't fixed it. I'm going to demand a refund or replacement on Monday, and will keep you posted.
Again, thanks to all of you for your words of encouragement and support!
For example, on the first couple of visits the error codes said that there was a steering angle fault, and that this had been tripped in multiple parts of the car. The dealer has replaced both parts of the steering angle sensor, but that hasn't solved the problem.
There has also been some evidence that the system faults occur due to a poorly installed "grommet" that seals the doors. In my case this seems to be at least one of the culprits because the faults often occur after the car has been washed, dried, and polished. This has happened at least three times on my car, but it's not the only cause of the faults.
The most recent word is that the front hood latch is causing the faults, although I don't yet know the details of that. In other words, there seem to be multiple gremlins that are causing these faults, and quite frankly no one seems to know how to diagnose or fix them. PCNA techs in Atlanta have had the dealer replace multiple control units, each time saying that this was going to "fix" the problem, but it hasn't.
Regarding the quality of the car, it has been fairly good otherwise, although there are squeaks and creaks that haven't been fixed, and there was the "sunroof" problem. Shortly after buying the car I had washed it and noticed a drop of water on the upper right rear passenger panel. Looking up I saw that the Alcantera headliner was wet in the corner, so obviously there was a leak. The dealer started to take things apart and found that something had been improperly installed, allowing the sunroof drip rail to come lose and water to get into the inside of the car.
So, anyone still think that I don't have a reason to be unhappy with this car? I'm either the most forgiving or stupid customer that Porsche could have asked for.
The dealer is keeping the car over the weekend, so it's quite obvious to me that they haven't fixed it. I'm going to demand a refund or replacement on Monday, and will keep you posted.
Again, thanks to all of you for your words of encouragement and support!
11-19-2004, 08:14 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Skip in Boulder
The problem is displayed as a message such as "System Fault - Return To Workshop". The manual statest that this means that one or more systems may have failed, it may be severe, adjust your driving accordingly, visit the workshop, etc. It's not the same thing as the check engine light, and from what I understand it can be triggered in a number of different ways.
For example, on the first couple of visits the error codes said that there was a steering angle fault, and that this had been tripped in multiple parts of the car. The dealer has replaced both parts of the steering angle sensor, but that hasn't solved the problem.
There has also been some evidence that the system faults occur due to a poorly installed "grommet" that seals the doors. In my case this seems to be at least one of the culprits because the faults often occur after the car has been washed, dried, and polished. This has happened at least three times on my car, but it's not the only cause of the faults.
The most recent word is that the front hood latch is causing the faults, although I don't yet know the details of that. In other words, there seem to be multiple gremlins that are causing these faults, and quite frankly no one seems to know how to diagnose or fix them. PCNA techs in Atlanta have had the dealer replace multiple control units, each time saying that this was going to "fix" the problem, but it hasn't.
Regarding the quality of the car, it has been fairly good otherwise, although there are squeaks and creaks that haven't been fixed, and there was the "sunroof" problem. Shortly after buying the car I had washed it and noticed a drop of water on the upper right rear passenger panel. Looking up I saw that the Alcantera headliner was wet in the corner, so obviously there was a leak. The dealer started to take things apart and found that something had been improperly installed, allowing the sunroof drip rail to come lose and water to get into the inside of the car.
So, anyone still think that I don't have a reason to be unhappy with this car? I'm either the most forgiving or stupid customer that Porsche could have asked for.
The dealer is keeping the car over the weekend, so it's quite obvious to me that they haven't fixed it. I'm going to demand a refund or replacement on Monday, and will keep you posted.
Again, thanks to all of you for your words of encouragement and support!
For example, on the first couple of visits the error codes said that there was a steering angle fault, and that this had been tripped in multiple parts of the car. The dealer has replaced both parts of the steering angle sensor, but that hasn't solved the problem.
There has also been some evidence that the system faults occur due to a poorly installed "grommet" that seals the doors. In my case this seems to be at least one of the culprits because the faults often occur after the car has been washed, dried, and polished. This has happened at least three times on my car, but it's not the only cause of the faults.
The most recent word is that the front hood latch is causing the faults, although I don't yet know the details of that. In other words, there seem to be multiple gremlins that are causing these faults, and quite frankly no one seems to know how to diagnose or fix them. PCNA techs in Atlanta have had the dealer replace multiple control units, each time saying that this was going to "fix" the problem, but it hasn't.
Regarding the quality of the car, it has been fairly good otherwise, although there are squeaks and creaks that haven't been fixed, and there was the "sunroof" problem. Shortly after buying the car I had washed it and noticed a drop of water on the upper right rear passenger panel. Looking up I saw that the Alcantera headliner was wet in the corner, so obviously there was a leak. The dealer started to take things apart and found that something had been improperly installed, allowing the sunroof drip rail to come lose and water to get into the inside of the car.
So, anyone still think that I don't have a reason to be unhappy with this car? I'm either the most forgiving or stupid customer that Porsche could have asked for.
The dealer is keeping the car over the weekend, so it's quite obvious to me that they haven't fixed it. I'm going to demand a refund or replacement on Monday, and will keep you posted.
Again, thanks to all of you for your words of encouragement and support!
WOW!!! I am strongly considering canceling my order!
11-19-2004, 08:28 PM
#64
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Are you sure its a 997s and not a VW TOUAREG?? Sounds like you got a Lemon?? Check your states Lemon Laws....All the VW VORTEX guys complain about this dreaded fault/workshop on there Eggs!!!
11-19-2004, 10:06 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by DoubleNutz
No it has not changed. We've always been here, in fact before you. May I draw your attention to the dates joined? I have been a member here since "Christ was a Corporal"! #030510-3335
11-20-2004, 12:34 AM
#67
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Originally Posted by Viken
A member of what? Rennlist? I doubt it. See, 030510-3335 is an expired membership number. You are merely a user at this point. Should you wish to renew your membership, please contact Jennifer Munson at jmunson@rennlist.com .
Awwww Viken man, is it time to pay-up again??? Oh all right I guess I gotta go dig up a gold brick outta my back yard. Why can't I get one of those "LIFE TIME MEMBER THINGEY'S?"
"Dang thought I was gett'n away with it."
11-20-2004, 01:09 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by Skip in Boulder
So, anyone still think that I don't have a reason to be unhappy with this car? I'm either the most forgiving or stupid customer that Porsche could have asked for.
The dealer is keeping the car over the weekend, so it's quite obvious to me that they haven't fixed it. I'm going to demand a refund or replacement on Monday, and will keep you posted.
!
Hopefully they that determine what should be done and how you should be treated will take that into consideration. Personally, I think you have a lemon and a refund is warranted. Its appearant you like the Porsche product, but I would personally wait awhile to see if other concerns arise in this first model year before you move on to another 997. If this first year becomes anything close to what MBenz has and is still going through and to a lessor extent BMW with customer satifaction due to CPU bugs another car may not be the answer. Lets hope thats not the case as a potential buyer of this car when the turbo is released.
I'm wondering Skip, what is the longest amount of time the dealership has had your car for before this weekend ?
Last edited by tlark; 11-20-2004 at 09:42 AM.
11-20-2004, 07:45 AM
#70
Skip
I have not had tje same problems but have had some that I have not had worked on yet. They include:
Noise in suspension over certain soft bumps
Unusually high noise level from the airvents (almost a whistling)
Gremlins in the audio system
I have not had them serviced since we are heading towards winter and I wanted to keep the car on the road as long as possible.
I had the same kind of problems you described and I got a lemon law attorney in Ohio. In about one month Mercedes bought my car back and I was made whole. If I had your problems I would consider similar actions.
I have not had tje same problems but have had some that I have not had worked on yet. They include:
Noise in suspension over certain soft bumps
Unusually high noise level from the airvents (almost a whistling)
Gremlins in the audio system
I have not had them serviced since we are heading towards winter and I wanted to keep the car on the road as long as possible.
I had the same kind of problems you described and I got a lemon law attorney in Ohio. In about one month Mercedes bought my car back and I was made whole. If I had your problems I would consider similar actions.
11-20-2004, 12:03 PM
#71
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I have heard that more Mercedes are taken back under the 'lemon law' then any other manufacturer.
I am currently using lawyers to get an Audi taken back.
I hope all is worked out for you Skip.
My boss just picked up a Silver 997S last week, and the next day it was towed to dealer ship because of computer problems.
Good Luck & Be Safe...
I am currently using lawyers to get an Audi taken back.
I hope all is worked out for you Skip.
My boss just picked up a Silver 997S last week, and the next day it was towed to dealer ship because of computer problems.
Good Luck & Be Safe...
11-20-2004, 01:50 PM
#72
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All modern cars are basically highly complex computer networks. These controllers/modules/systems are developed by many different vendors, then the manufacture tries to integrate them all in a hostlie environment that is a car( temp and vibration extremes ). . Your dealership mechanic and service advisor are not electrical / software engineers and therein lies the problem now and worse moving into the future. .
11-20-2004, 05:12 PM
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MKW,
You're correct, but since we design automotive parts I think there must be more to it. Proper specification and testing take into account "hostile environment" requirements and uses, so there must be another weak link in the chain somewhere.
You're correct, but since we design automotive parts I think there must be more to it. Proper specification and testing take into account "hostile environment" requirements and uses, so there must be another weak link in the chain somewhere.
11-20-2004, 05:23 PM
#74
Three Wheelin'
generally speaking, it sounds like they need more time to work out the software bugs in this car. Mercedes actually starting stripping features out of their software that they felt "no one was using" - to simplify it, so the code could be more reliable, so people would stop bringing cars back to the dealer to fix these glitches. It was also hurting their initial quality surveys.
one other thing I learned from reading some MB boards (probably true with other makes too) - dealerships were not in the habit of flashing ECUs with the latest code revision, before delivering the car. this was amazing to me, that they would be delivering cars with known bugs, when they had ECU updates available - but did not load them by default before delivery. that is an insane policy, it takes less time to flash the ECU then it does to vacuum the car before delivery. instead, they would deliver the car and force the customer to return for a service visit with a complaint, before updating the software.
one other thing I learned from reading some MB boards (probably true with other makes too) - dealerships were not in the habit of flashing ECUs with the latest code revision, before delivering the car. this was amazing to me, that they would be delivering cars with known bugs, when they had ECU updates available - but did not load them by default before delivery. that is an insane policy, it takes less time to flash the ECU then it does to vacuum the car before delivery. instead, they would deliver the car and force the customer to return for a service visit with a complaint, before updating the software.
11-20-2004, 05:46 PM
#75
Instructor
My 997 is in the shop right now. It has 235 miles on it. It is in for rattles in the dash, tranny tunnel, audio gremlin and poorly tinted passenger side window. My dealer has me hooked up with a wonderful Subaru loaner... On the good side, the car is a blast. I have driven it pretty hard, seen 140 a couple of times on the "side" roads here in AZ. Overall, the car whoops on my old 993C2 and the Boxster S. I want it back from my dealer, NOW!