SkipSauls

Using the data supplied by Porsche, it's interesting to chart the hp and torque for the 997 S vs. the 996 GT3:




Factoring in the weights (3131 lbs. for the 997 S and 3043 lbs. for the 996 GT3) is also quite interesting:



The two cars are equal at 5000 RPM, and the GT3 certainly has the upper hand above 7000 RPM, but at any other RPM the 997 S has the advantage. None of this is really a surprise, but it is interesting to see the direct comparison.

Note that this isn't a troll or meant to bait anyone, and is meant for informational purposes only. The GT3 clearly has a performance edge when driven hard, but it's not clear that it would be any better in most circumstances, and may in fact be worse. Some would ask "why get a 997 S when the 996 GT3 is in a similar price range", and the more flexible engine is just one of the reasons that I would cite.

graham_mitchell

interesting, thanks

Alan Smithee

That's very interesting. When you factor in the price, it makes the 997S an even better proposition! (Exterior and interior styling being entirely subjective).

frayed

Well, one reason is weight. In the real world, on the scales, the GT3 will prove 200lbs lighter out of the box. OTOH, you get lots of bells and whistles the GT3 will never have, reduced levels of NVH, and fundamentally a better chassis due to improvements in aero, chassis rigidity, overall engineering, and *ground clearance*. This last point I actually think is pretty important.

I am in this exact situation at the moment. As a track enthusiast, and knowing that the GT3 is very special car, I have real difficulty going for the softer, less edgy car. However, at the price of the GT3 and a 997S, I'm not comfy swinging it and a nice pimp daily driver. So, for me, the issue is 'which car is the better decathlete?'

Skip, since you have a pimp lineup including a GT3 cup, I'm interested if you have any thoughts on the plain jane GT3 as a daily.

I've never driven a GT3, but have witnessed what they can do on the track. They are phenomenal. Stuff that true porschephile track hounds would lose a left nut for. But my car has to live in the real world. . .

Sean

I'm interested if you have any thoughts on the plain jane GT3 as a daily

I've driven a GT3 once, and was impressed with its suitability for a daily driver. The suspension is taut, but not substantially moreso than the 030 in my Boxster S. The two felt about the same from a ride quality standpoint. So, I think the GT3 would make a great daily driver if you can do without the rear seats and sunroof, plus tolerate a little extra road noise.

That said, is the GT3 a better daily driver than the 997S? With the 997S you get the latest techno stuff (for better or worse), plenty of comfort features, and the latest styling--all for $20k less.

Mikey

The data you have is mainly based on marekting material. In the real world the GT3 typically dynos at 385hp RWHP and weight is closer to 2900lbs. Don't forget also the GT3 motor and tranny come from the GT3 cup car, while the 997 motor and tranny come from the Boxster.

The 997 GT3 will use the same 3.6L GT1 motor as the 996 GT3 tweaked for a couple of extra horses ... it has more in common with the 996 GT3 than the 997 S.


http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...0&page=0#49287

RSA333

There is a 3.8 L version of the 997 GTSRS, to be released in 06. I have seen the cars.

jmmitias

RSA333, do you mean a 3.8L version of the GT1 engine currently used in the GT3?

Thanks,
Johnny

SkipSauls

quartermile, do you have "real world data" proving that the 997 S doesn't have more HP than Porsche reports in the marketing material? If not, then how could you possibly know that it's not also more powerful than stated? For that matter, are you certain that it doesn't weigh less than reported?

I do believe that it's possible to get 385 RWHP out of the GT3 engine, in fact my GT3 Cup with WCS mods has 430 RWHP, and it only weighs 2500 lbs. It will also spank any GT3 street car on the track, but then again that's to be expected from a real race car that hasn't been softened up for the street.

frayed, I considered a GT3 for the street, but frankly it just didn't appeal to me because it wouldn't be much fun on the rough roads we have here in Colorado. The 997 S isn't soft, but it is comfortable enough on bad roads, and with PASM on sport I'd bet that I'd keep up with many a GT3 driver. For track days and racing I have the GT3 Cup, and as stated above, it will run rings around a street GT3 and is a lot more fun to boot.

Mikey

"do you have "real world data" proving that the 997 S doesn't have more HP than Porsche reports in the marketing material"

No data for 997 yet but we all know what the GT3 numbers are. Porsche actions are stronger than words ... If the 997 motor was really stronger why wouldn't they use it in the 997 GT3?

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/138816-who-has-the-highest-rwhp-gt3-on-this-board.html

I think 997 makes a great daily -- that's what it was designed to do. Personally I would take a SL55 or M5 though for that amount of money ... JMO.

SkipSauls

quartermile, you seem to think that I'm bashing the GT3, which I'm not. It's a fine car, and if I had to have only one car, I might consider one. However, I'd probably still try to get a track car and street car for the same money as I don't believe that it's possible to have one car that does both really well. I've seen a brand new GT3 and a low mileage GT2 crash very badly during recent PCA DEs at Pueblo, with both being tens of thousands of dollars in damage. I'll never seriously drive a street car on the track again as a) none of them are as good as a real track/race car and b) the risk to the car and driver is too great.

As for an SL55, puh-leaze! Maybe when I'm an old fart or if I take up the country club lifestyle. As for an M5, what's the point? It's a sedan that tries to be a sports car, but doesn't quite make it. If I wanted an uber family car, I might go for a S4 or RS6 Avant to get some more utility, but none of those cars is as much fun to drive as the 997.

mooty

"I'd probably still try to get a track car and street car for the same money as I don't believe that it's possible to have one car that does both really well"

where were you, skip, when i was buying ???

i agree with skip wholeheartedly.

munro86

Skip,
Could you provide a clear defintion of torque please.

Thanks

Mikey

The SL55 and E90 M5 would be great cars for rough roads regardless of driver age - they both make the 997 motor look like a joke. Presumably if you don't think these are fast enough, then you fall into the street racer category which is exactly what the GT3 was designed for. Personally I track my cars up to 10K miles on the odo and then ditch them at 30K miles because I don't think they are safe for the street (for my driving habits.)

Getting back to the original topic -- I maintain that a 997 is a glorified Boxster and the GT3 is a street Cup car, and your data is flawed. Could you please post the source of your data?

frayed

Geez, so much hate.