Disappointed in my 997, what to do
 

I have owned a 2008 C4S 6MT since the end of December, and although I had a thorough PPI and the car came with comprehensive service history, I have had numerous 'annoyances' along with two large items come up in my short ownership (driven less than 500 miles). The good news is the car has the IMS done, clean borescope images, and a clean oil analysis - but I just worry about 'whats next' with this car. Judging by the included service documentation - the prior owner did a lot of preventive maintenance and really treated the car well, so absolutely no blame there.

I do not know if it because I am annoyed with the car, but I just do not really enjoy driving it. As the car approaches 70+ MPH, an annoying vibration begins in the passenger seat (had the tires road force balanced in February), and although it is better after the balance, it is still present. Unless I am driving on perfectly smooth tarmac, the car is not comfortable (even with PASM in normal) and feels unsure of its self. My E39 sedan drives much better and feels much more planted. Just recently I was enjoying a nice road near my house, had the windows down and noticed a 'rotational' sound coming from the front; it is not quite a grind but I definitely hear something subtle every time the front wheel rotates.

The car is going in for a 50k mile service in a week, and the above item and other large issues are also going to be resolved, but I am considering selling (even for a loss) after the service as I am just not enjoying this ownership.

I wanted to hear if anyone had a similar situation and if ownership gets better. I am disappointed because I spent 2 years searching for a 997, and thought I had found my forever car.

I totally understand that. I didn’t like mine in its stock form, very boring in my opinion. It cost me a lot of money and I should have just bought a GT car, but it’s a blast to drive now.

That is strange cause I have about 55K miles on my 2007 9972S Cab, and it feels great to me. Smooth, handles well, no creaks or rattles (even with top up), and a hoot to drive in the mountains on weekends. I did have new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S put on and it really made the car more comfortable too. You’ve got something going on with your car if you’re feeling something’s not right. Have you driven other 997s or only the one you bought?

I have driven a friend’s 9974S once and I did not actually like that the steering felt more weighted as it felt less chuckable into corners as my 2S, but I know a lot of people love the 4S too.

I have driven other 997 (and 991s), but never for very long. You learn a lot about the car when you own it verses on a test drive. Hopefully after this trip to the shop - the car will feel a lot better!

Thanks for the thoughts.

I bought my '06 997 in February of last year with 58k miles and I thought it was a very nice example. Then I started driving it daily and things broke left and right for a few months. Now that I've done: new plugs, new coils, new belt, new water pump, coolant expansion tank, new tires, and various small interior things I have had a more reliable experience. I've driven it a little over 10k miles since then.

I think everyone gets stuck looking for a low mileage example without considering the harm that sitting around does to these cars. Knowing what I know now, I'd prefer a higher mileage but frequently used and maintained version in the future. (People really need to start driving their 992 GT3's so I can get a higher mileage one in a few years that hasn't lived its life on a battery tender.)

In summary, it's an old car and things are going to break but eventually it comes down to a reasonable level. Also, a 997 is going to feel more jittery than a E39, not much you can do about that. Just think of it as communicative vs unsettled (unless your alignment is just way off or something).

Maybe a full wheel alignment will help to take away this feeling that the cars feel ‘unsure’. I recognize this ‘feel’, most of the time it was wheel alignment (I owned several different types 911 incl. 997). Also a check on the usual suspects as control arms, bushings, suspension, etc. can be a good idea.

regards,

Dick964

Very sorry to hear about your frustration here, @E39to911 . It sounds to me like there is definitely something going on with car that is ruining the driving experience. From the start of my ownership at 55K miles and for nearly 30K miles since, my 06 Carrera S has always felt planted and smooth to 70MPH (and beyond) across all sorts of surfaces, even before I added a TPC DSC controlled. I hope a good check up can uncover the issue. (Sounds like something amiss with suspension.)

Wishing you luck to quickly and easily get some peace of mind and the car more confidence-inspiring.

I have owned a BMW E39 540i 6 speeds for more than 12 years and my 997.1 2006 C4S for more than 14 years. The E39 is a very nice machine and will always be more stable and planted than the 997. The wheel base is the main reason.
Where the 997.1 excels, is in the twisty roads. You can travel at high speed on a highway but you will never get the same level of comfort than the E39 or more modern cars.
Make sure that your wheels are properly aligned and your tires properly inflated. The consensus is to run a couple of pounds below what Porsche recommends on your door sill panel (there are many threads about the tires pressure on this forum).
Also, keep the car in Normal mode for the suspension. In Sport mode, you can de-activate the stiff suspensions, and that helps tremendously.
Don't give up so easily, especially after searching for it for so long. It takes time to adjust to it, but you will like it in the long run.

Yves

If you have new PASM struts in the back, maybe a suspension component was not secured or torqued properly, or the arms or links were not torqued with the suspension loaded first. I just went through this with my 2006 Carrera 4 MT Cabrio . Rear upper mounts were shot, noises getting worse after a rough road trip up past Ragged Point (Hwy 1). Car felt out of wack. This car is very sensitive to proper wheel damping and individual wheel alignment. After replacing the mounts and having the alignment checked, car is back on rails with no shakes or vibes. A rattle free cab, with 19 inch lobsters to boot. The left rear mount had a lot of play, and so that shock (mine are original and still are at 76K miles) was late to the party, since the play meant no damping action until the clearance was taken up.

Also time for a DSC controller, since you have PASM. And check for a bent rim.

I feel a lot more hopeful after reading this thread thus far, and am excited to get the car into the shop!

Re: DSC - I have looked into it, but am nervous about splicing in the accelerometer.

Having owned 3 997 C4S's over past 7 years(I currently own a 2006 997 C4) something is obviously worn out/needs attention on your car because it should feel smooth as silk at all speeds.
#1 - Not sure why you would state that the IMS has been changed? The 2008 engine has the more robust IMS Bearing and you would have to split the case to change it so that is incorrect statement? Is that what you were told?
#2 - With the mis-information regarding the IMS being changed, did shop doing PPI provide you with Bore Scope Photos? Or did they just tell you the Bore Scope Inspection looked good?
#3 - You say the previous owned took very good care of the car-----> Do you have documentation the Front Differential Fluid was ever changed?? SHould have been changed every 30K miles without fail or can damage inner grears and result in the exact vibration/noise issues you are explaining

...So I'd be curious to hear just what type of PPI and Bore Scope Inspection (Photos of all cylinders) information your got from shop doing PPI and just exaclty what sort of service history you have on the car.

I have the documentation from the Porsche dealer that did the IMS in August of 2021. I called the dealer before I bought to ask why it was done, and they said the prior-prior owner was just very meticulous and wanted it done. I was just mentioning it as a datapoint for the history that the car had. That being said now I am having second thoughts as I am having the differential fluid changed next week as part of the 50k mile service, but have no documentation that it was done in the past. Is the only solution a new front diff?

I have photos from the PPI showing the interior of all the cylinders and I did an oil analysis from SPEEDiagnostix before purchase.

I'll also add that I think these cars are pretty sensitive to tire pressures. You might want to mess with that a little. Also, when a car sits on soft tires for a spell that first few miles always seem rough, I think they temp flat spot pretty quick.

*WHat was the cost to change the IMS Bearing at the dealer? Must have been at least $6000-$7000 maybe even $9-$10,000 at dealer prices to rip apart the engine and do the IMS change/install.
In all these years I have never seen or heard of this done on a post 2005/2006 997 engine with the larger more robust IMS Bearing.----->And for the Porsche Dealer to go along with it is nothing less than criminal.----> Like a heart surgeon performing a transplant on perfectly healthy patient.

Good job getting photos of the Bore Scope Inspection!
The front differential can be purchased used for $900 on ebay or Porsche Parts dismantler - Not a big deal but could very well be the noise/vibration you are explaining. You can also remove it entirely like some owners have done to reduce weight.
I love all wheel drive and why I have stuck with the 997 C4S and C4 cars.
Keep us posted

:thumbup:

I actually do not know - the documentation is all redacted of who the prior owner was and what the line item costs were, but it was in the shop for about 3 weeks, and has a laundry list of parts that were installed. I will certainly keep you posted on the front diff situation - I too like having 4WD, so plan on keeping that!