Which transmission?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,788
Likes: 7,392
From: Seattle, Washington
manual on 997 and older. 1st gen PDK on the 997.2 really isn't that much better than the ZF automatics...
on the 991 and newer cars, PDK is vastly improved. So I would go with that unless it is a GT touring. GT cars on the 991 and 992 use a completely different manual gearbox (a 6 speed) than the Carreras (7 speed or the new 7 minus 1 on the 992.2 T) on the newer cars.
the 7 speed manual on the 991 and 992 cars is really a PDK box with a mechanical linkage convertor--it never felt right to me. while as the Getrag and Aisin on our cars always feel silky smooth once the oil is up to temp and if the gearbox is in good shape.
on the 991 and newer cars, PDK is vastly improved. So I would go with that unless it is a GT touring. GT cars on the 991 and 992 use a completely different manual gearbox (a 6 speed) than the Carreras (7 speed or the new 7 minus 1 on the 992.2 T) on the newer cars.
the 7 speed manual on the 991 and 992 cars is really a PDK box with a mechanical linkage convertor--it never felt right to me. while as the Getrag and Aisin on our cars always feel silky smooth once the oil is up to temp and if the gearbox is in good shape.
Instructor
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 148
Likes: 69
Not one mention of the TIP, it must be unpopular despite being an auto like the PDK. If you only drive your car on the street with the odd canyon run, the auto is the way to go. Over in your country, canyon roads aside, most of the roads are straight with a smattering of fast sweepers. Manuals are good for heel and toe and downshifting - they're lighter too. But that's it - the rest of the time, for the street, you want easy like Sunday morning; listening to music and enjoying your reflection in shop windows - no one is constantly racing on the street unless you're still at that age where risk still gives you a kick.
Traditional auto vs DCT - Potato, Potata, I prefer traditional, but we're not all the same. I have a .1 manual C2 and a 986 S Tip - for my driving on the street, I prefer the TIP and don't hanker after a PDK. But when I'm in the mood, the manual is intoxicating when it has warmed up, and is only let down by the ridiculously long gearing.
Traditional auto vs DCT - Potato, Potata, I prefer traditional, but we're not all the same. I have a .1 manual C2 and a 986 S Tip - for my driving on the street, I prefer the TIP and don't hanker after a PDK. But when I'm in the mood, the manual is intoxicating when it has warmed up, and is only let down by the ridiculously long gearing.
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 62
Likes: 60
700bhp tip and looking to go further.
No regrets
No offence but if you think the tip is bad then you have been brain washed into spending more for a car in order to verify your own feelings. Sorry not sorry. Pdk>tip>manual. No such thing as a pdk mezger so next best thing is a tip. Unless you car is 100% track based then the tip is the best trans for a 7.1 99.9% of the time. That is further compounded by the latest TCU tunes.
Happy to discuss.
No regrets
No offence but if you think the tip is bad then you have been brain washed into spending more for a car in order to verify your own feelings. Sorry not sorry. Pdk>tip>manual. No such thing as a pdk mezger so next best thing is a tip. Unless you car is 100% track based then the tip is the best trans for a 7.1 99.9% of the time. That is further compounded by the latest TCU tunes.
Happy to discuss.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,740
Likes: 784
From: Central California Coast
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 28,682
Likes: 8,447
From: Clemson, SC
700bhp tip and looking to go further.
No regrets
No offence but if you think the tip is bad then you have been brain washed into spending more for a car in order to verify your own feelings. Sorry not sorry. Pdk>tip>manual. No such thing as a pdk mezger so next best thing is a tip. Unless you car is 100% track based then the tip is the best trans for a 7.1 99.9% of the time. That is further compounded by the latest TCU tunes.
Happy to discuss.
No regrets
No offence but if you think the tip is bad then you have been brain washed into spending more for a car in order to verify your own feelings. Sorry not sorry. Pdk>tip>manual. No such thing as a pdk mezger so next best thing is a tip. Unless you car is 100% track based then the tip is the best trans for a 7.1 99.9% of the time. That is further compounded by the latest TCU tunes.
Happy to discuss.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 651
Likes: 510
From: East Coast, USA
The merc tiptronic in 996-997.1 cars are dated even when these cars are new. It shifts slow and it really feels like a slushbox. Any claim of contrary is...delusional really. There is a reason why you only see the ZF 6HP box in the BMW and Aston of the same era. It is a much superior box.
Instructor
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 148
Likes: 69
The merc tiptronic in 996-997.1 cars are dated even when these cars are new. It shifts slow and it really feels like a slushbox. Any claim of contrary is...delusional really. There is a reason why you only see the ZF 6HP box in the BMW and Aston of the same era. It is a much superior box.
The internet of things sometimes gives folk a false sense of reality - they believe the hype and follow the herd. I've been there and done that, but we're not always right - sometimes you have to try something before discounting it as useless, and remember that Porsche doesn't do things by halves. If it's there, it's because they think it is good, and it was there for a very long time. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they're not.
Is PDK better than TIP, manual? who knows. It depends on how you drive - not 5% of the time, 10% even, it's how you drive 90% of the time on the street. If you're heeling and toeing, revving the thing out, engine braking on the street, manual is for you, but you'd have to be living and driving somewhere with lax policing, winding and smooth roads, sparse traffic. i.e motoring nirvana. It's not like that where I live, sometimes bursts of speed in bite-sized chunks are enough, and I don't have to worry about a cold gearbox, double declutching, riding the clutch or a miss shift _ I just use my fingers to go up and down the box as I choose, or let it do it for me.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
Genius Porsche-Themed Gifts That'll Make Any Dad or Grad Smile
Joe Kucinski
10 Used Porsches Are Selling for Way Too Cheap
Joe Kucinski
Tuner Is Converting Porsche 911s Into Shooting Brakes
Verdad Gallardo
This Coachbuilt Creation Is A Modern Take on the Legendary Porsche 917
Verdad Gallardo
Is This Convertible Cayenne A Steal, Or A Returnless Investment?
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Non-Flat Six Porsches You Can Buy For Under $100K
Joe Kucinski
Porsche's Top 5 Most Questionable Naming Decisions
Verdad Gallardo
Pogea Racing's 964 Porsche 911 Reimagination Stands Out in a Crowded Field
Verdad Gallardo
6 Convertible Top MYTHS Most People Don't Understand!
Michael S. Palmer
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 651
Likes: 510
From: East Coast, USA
I was watching a video on YouTube the other day. A chap had just bought a McLaren SLR. He loved it - couldn't help himself - whoop whoop. Gearbox? Mercedes 5G Tronic, the same as the one in the 911/Boxster/Cayman, through to 2010. Ditto the SL65 AMG.
The internet of things sometimes gives folk a false sense of reality - they believe the hype and follow the herd. I've been there and done that, but we're not always right - sometimes you have to try something before discounting it as useless, and remember that Porsche doesn't do things by halves. If it's there, it's because they think it is good, and it was there for a very long time. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they're not.
Is PDK better than TIP, manual? who knows. It depends on how you drive - not 5% of the time, 10% even, it's how you drive 90% of the time on the street. If you're heeling and toeing, revving the thing out, engine braking on the street, manual is for you, but you'd have to be living and driving somewhere with lax policing, winding and smooth roads, sparse traffic. i.e motoring nirvana. It's not like that where I live, sometimes bursts of speed in bite-sized chunks are enough, and I don't have to worry about a cold gearbox, double declutching, riding the clutch or a miss shift _ I just use my fingers to go up and down the box as I choose, or let it do it for me.
The internet of things sometimes gives folk a false sense of reality - they believe the hype and follow the herd. I've been there and done that, but we're not always right - sometimes you have to try something before discounting it as useless, and remember that Porsche doesn't do things by halves. If it's there, it's because they think it is good, and it was there for a very long time. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they're not.
Is PDK better than TIP, manual? who knows. It depends on how you drive - not 5% of the time, 10% even, it's how you drive 90% of the time on the street. If you're heeling and toeing, revving the thing out, engine braking on the street, manual is for you, but you'd have to be living and driving somewhere with lax policing, winding and smooth roads, sparse traffic. i.e motoring nirvana. It's not like that where I live, sometimes bursts of speed in bite-sized chunks are enough, and I don't have to worry about a cold gearbox, double declutching, riding the clutch or a miss shift _ I just use my fingers to go up and down the box as I choose, or let it do it for me.
Is the tip a bad transmission? Of course not. But it is more suited for a GT car like the Aston DB9, M6 and such. Not in a sports car like the 996/997 IMO. The used market prices reflect that as well.
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 28,682
Likes: 8,447
From: Clemson, SC
I don't know who makes the 8.speed Tiptronics in my kids B8.5 Audi SQ5s (2015 & 2016) - maybe ZF - but they are fantastic and shift much faster than the 6 speed Tip in my Cayenne Turbo S. They're so quick I would pick them over a PDK to have that type of performance without the PDK dual clutch potential issues. Manual would still be the best, but it's really good for a torque converter slushbox.
.
.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 651
Likes: 510
From: East Coast, USA
I don't know who makes the 8.speed Tiptronics in my kids B8.5 Audi SQ5s (2015 & 2016) - maybe ZF - but they are fantastic and shift much faster than the 6 speed Tip in my Cayenne Turbo S. They're so quick I would pick them over a PDK to have that type of performance without the PDK dual clutch potential issues. Manual would still be the best, but it's really good for a torque converter slushbox.
.
.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,767
Likes: 891
From: Northeast USA
For a 911 weekend driver, I’ll always go manual over PDK. I’ve driven the newer models in manual and even with the 7-speed, I’d still take it over a PDK. I just like the extra engagement you get with 3 pedals and rowing your own gears.
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 62
Likes: 60
No 2-pedal transmission offers the driving engagement of a manual 3-pedal car. That's simply a fact and why my decision flowchart stops at that box. Anyone who wants a 2-pedal car can then fight about what's better, but the market prices for 3-pedal cars vs 2 pedal cars tell the story. The MT is King for driving involvement and market pricing with the others fighting over 2nd place.
Buy a tip and with the money saved add a few extra hundred bhp as well as fixing the other age and 997 specific issues. You know... The nose dive under harsh breaking, the embarrassing PASM, coolant lines, etc! Then maybe you can learn to drive that on track and strip. That is real engagement. Oh, dont forget, you also don't feel like a peasant whilst in traffic with that legendarily heavy clutch similar to a 90s testarossa.
I was watching a video on YouTube the other day. A chap had just bought a McLaren SLR. He loved it - couldn't help himself - whoop whoop. Gearbox? Mercedes 5G Tronic, the same as the one in the 911/Boxster/Cayman, through to 2010. Ditto the SL65 AMG.
The internet of things sometimes gives folk a false sense of reality - they believe the hype and follow the herd. I've been there and done that, but we're not always right - sometimes you have to try something before discounting it as useless, and remember that Porsche doesn't do things by halves. If it's there, it's because they think it is good, and it was there for a very long time. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they're not.
Is PDK better than TIP, manual? who knows. It depends on how you drive - not 5% of the time, 10% even, it's how you drive 90% of the time on the street. If you're heeling and toeing, revving the thing out, engine braking on the street, manual is for you, but you'd have to be living and driving somewhere with lax policing, winding and smooth roads, sparse traffic. i.e motoring nirvana. It's not like that where I live, sometimes bursts of speed in bite-sized chunks are enough, and I don't have to worry about a cold gearbox, double declutching, riding the clutch or a miss shift _ I just use my fingers to go up and down the box as I choose, or let it do it for me.
The internet of things sometimes gives folk a false sense of reality - they believe the hype and follow the herd. I've been there and done that, but we're not always right - sometimes you have to try something before discounting it as useless, and remember that Porsche doesn't do things by halves. If it's there, it's because they think it is good, and it was there for a very long time. Sometimes they're wrong, sometimes they're not.
Is PDK better than TIP, manual? who knows. It depends on how you drive - not 5% of the time, 10% even, it's how you drive 90% of the time on the street. If you're heeling and toeing, revving the thing out, engine braking on the street, manual is for you, but you'd have to be living and driving somewhere with lax policing, winding and smooth roads, sparse traffic. i.e motoring nirvana. It's not like that where I live, sometimes bursts of speed in bite-sized chunks are enough, and I don't have to worry about a cold gearbox, double declutching, riding the clutch or a miss shift _ I just use my fingers to go up and down the box as I choose, or let it do it for me.
you mentioned the SLR before I got a chance to. Funny how the same people lusting over the 20 year old manual turbo are the same people leaving love heart emojis on SLR reels.99% of these people have never experienced the tiptronic... Let one at full WOT. They simply want to validate the reason they spent the extra because the Internet told them to.
The 997.2 PDK is woeful in comparison to the 991+ pdk. I have experienced both and also disliked because I was able to distinguish that comparison. Faster than tip? Yes, slightly but more.. Clunky. Is it a mezger? No.