Worth it to upgrade from a .2 Base to a .2S?
02-10-2023, 10:56 AM
#31
02-10-2023, 11:45 AM
#32
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numeric is this one: https://flat6motorsports.com/product...er-996-997-987 ?
02-10-2023, 11:59 AM
#33
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I would say look for a C4S or C4.
Some may not agree but what I have found in the 997's I've owned (3 997C4S 2 997S and 2 997C4), the "S" 3.8L motor and the slightly larger brakes in an "S" model don't add up to much. Hardly tell the difference.
IMO, the wide body C4/C4S is nicer design and a bit better handling characteristics. But again very slight. More the looks.
And with all the Bore Score drama, the non-S less prone to scoring so could be a better choice.
And non-S can easily be lowered w/H&R springs my Fav. And Black Gauge Faces look great like early 911
Have fun on your hunt!
Some may not agree but what I have found in the 997's I've owned (3 997C4S 2 997S and 2 997C4), the "S" 3.8L motor and the slightly larger brakes in an "S" model don't add up to much. Hardly tell the difference.
IMO, the wide body C4/C4S is nicer design and a bit better handling characteristics. But again very slight. More the looks.
And with all the Bore Score drama, the non-S less prone to scoring so could be a better choice.
And non-S can easily be lowered w/H&R springs my Fav. And Black Gauge Faces look great like early 911
Have fun on your hunt!
997.2 base cars have the same diameter brakes as the .2 S, unlike the .1 cars, so the brake disparity between base and S isn't as big as on the 997.1 cars. 997.2 base calipers are a closed design, 997.2 S are open, so much easier for track rats to change pads with an S. Theoretically, the closed design of the base calipers should give it slightly better feel given it is more rigid. So, unless you're swapping pads on a weekly basis, you are giving up nothing other than red paint with the 997.2 base brakes.
Agree that the wide body is amazing looking. Respectfully disagree on the handling characteristics and steering feel of the 4wd drive cars. I would never consider a 4wd 911, but that's just me. It may sound odd, but high-traction AWD handling characteristics are not something I want out of a 911, actually. Pure steering feel is.
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Floyd540 (02-10-2023)
02-10-2023, 01:18 PM
#34
I’ll disregard the meaningless Porsche stats.
The videos show exactly what I mentioned and reflect the 0.3-0.5 second advantages most magazine tests show for the “money” acceleration stats. That is the same difference as between a 997.2S and a 997.1 turbo. Eg 0-60 of a .2S is 3.8-4.0 and a .1 turbo is 3.5-3.7. A base .2 carrera is 4.1-4.4 with some wiggle room due to test approach (roll-out) and conditions.
Similar differences in the quarter miles too. A different “feel” of how the difference is generated between foot and back (turbo) but the gap being similar says for any “enthusiast” driver it’s noticeable.
Is it meaningful to notice that? Subjective. I actually think it can sometimes be more fun to push a slower car harder… but it doesn’t mean the difference itself isn’t noticeable.
The videos show exactly what I mentioned and reflect the 0.3-0.5 second advantages most magazine tests show for the “money” acceleration stats. That is the same difference as between a 997.2S and a 997.1 turbo. Eg 0-60 of a .2S is 3.8-4.0 and a .1 turbo is 3.5-3.7. A base .2 carrera is 4.1-4.4 with some wiggle room due to test approach (roll-out) and conditions.
Similar differences in the quarter miles too. A different “feel” of how the difference is generated between foot and back (turbo) but the gap being similar says for any “enthusiast” driver it’s noticeable.
Is it meaningful to notice that? Subjective. I actually think it can sometimes be more fun to push a slower car harder… but it doesn’t mean the difference itself isn’t noticeable.
Just for reference…
Interesting side-by-side drag races of base 997.2 vs 997.2 S, all PDK cars with Sports Chrono and Launch Control.
The time stamps of the races are as follows…
7m39s - C2 (silver) vs. C2S (yellow)
8m49s - C4 (white) vs. C4S (black)
9m16s - C2S (yellow) vs. C4S (black)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3SxwjKU_es&t=459s
And then Porsche’s official numbers for the RWD models.
Interesting side-by-side drag races of base 997.2 vs 997.2 S, all PDK cars with Sports Chrono and Launch Control.
The time stamps of the races are as follows…
7m39s - C2 (silver) vs. C2S (yellow)
8m49s - C4 (white) vs. C4S (black)
9m16s - C2S (yellow) vs. C4S (black)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3SxwjKU_es&t=459s
And then Porsche’s official numbers for the RWD models.
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997.1C2S (02-11-2023)
02-10-2023, 01:51 PM
#35
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02-10-2023, 02:05 PM
#36
Simply out of curiosity, what do you consider these to be?
02-10-2023, 02:23 PM
#37
yes but is it 997.2 S more prone than 997.2 BASE?
I ask it because I remember a video from youtube where they said that in the 997.2 it could be the opposite: 997.2 base more prone than 997.2 S for bore scoring.
But it was just a hypothesis
02-10-2023, 02:42 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
I am not sure if there is enough date regarding the 997.2 Base vs the 997.2 S
02-10-2023, 03:05 PM
#39
From what I have read the 997.1 and 997.2 S are both more prone to bore scoring than the base model of either generation. I have no idea how much credit can be placed upon the sources that have provided this information so YMMV.
02-10-2023, 03:15 PM
#40
Possibilities are endless. I’d say 80% of the mods from stock are downgrades. Often literally as replacing higher quality components and engineering decisions with inferior alternatives.
There are nicely done, quality mods too. But, like good artists and engineers, they are a minority of the population of examples.
In my opinion.
02-10-2023, 03:17 PM
#41
If factoring in bore scoring risk (immaterially minuscule) of a 997.2 into ANY decision then someone should choose a different car - something more in that risk/financial capacity range.
02-10-2023, 04:14 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
You’re more likely to be killed behind the wheel of a 997.2 than you are to get bore scoring.
02-11-2023, 01:58 PM
#43
I would venture that the price difference between the base and the S, with all things being equal, is about $5,000 USD.
The bigger factor is likely the difference in mileage.
Run a Kelley Blue Book to see if the difference in miles compensates for that.
Personally, I like your red color much better than white.
The performance difference by adding Sport Chrono cannot be overstated. I added it to my 2010S and it makes a world of difference.
The bigger factor is likely the difference in mileage.
Run a Kelley Blue Book to see if the difference in miles compensates for that.
Personally, I like your red color much better than white.
The performance difference by adding Sport Chrono cannot be overstated. I added it to my 2010S and it makes a world of difference.
02-11-2023, 10:10 PM
#44
The mileage might make up $5k of the $15k. Not more. Most of the difference is the “S” and frankly for $10k worth every cent.
I would venture that the price difference between the base and the S, with all things being equal, is about $5,000 USD.
The bigger factor is likely the difference in mileage.
Run a Kelley Blue Book to see if the difference in miles compensates for that.
Personally, I like your red color much better than white.
The performance difference by adding Sport Chrono cannot be overstated. I added it to my 2010S and it makes a world of difference.
The bigger factor is likely the difference in mileage.
Run a Kelley Blue Book to see if the difference in miles compensates for that.
Personally, I like your red color much better than white.
The performance difference by adding Sport Chrono cannot be overstated. I added it to my 2010S and it makes a world of difference.
Last edited by SpeedyD; 02-12-2023 at 01:25 PM.
02-11-2023, 10:32 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
The difference between a 997.2 base and a 997.2S 5% technical and 95% ego.
Forget price and value differences. Porsche added a few items with minimal up cost to them and made a huge markup on selling price difference.
As to those talking about sport seats and full leather, neither come standard on a base or an S. They are options for both.
For those of us with stick shift cars, Sport Chrono adds nothing as to performance, but makes you feel faster. You also have to deal with the "wart". PDK cars do get advantages for the automatic transmission cars.
.2 brakes are slightly different but performance is identical. Porsche always does overkill on braking systems.
Actual car performance differences as noted by actual users is zero or minimal at best. As always, those confined to reading data sheets and no hands on experience will argue this.
PASM is an option if you want it.
This is the 5% area.
I will not touch the 95% catagory.
Forget price and value differences. Porsche added a few items with minimal up cost to them and made a huge markup on selling price difference.
As to those talking about sport seats and full leather, neither come standard on a base or an S. They are options for both.
For those of us with stick shift cars, Sport Chrono adds nothing as to performance, but makes you feel faster. You also have to deal with the "wart". PDK cars do get advantages for the automatic transmission cars.
.2 brakes are slightly different but performance is identical. Porsche always does overkill on braking systems.
Actual car performance differences as noted by actual users is zero or minimal at best. As always, those confined to reading data sheets and no hands on experience will argue this.
PASM is an option if you want it.
This is the 5% area.
I will not touch the 95% catagory.