bgoetz

I would hope that most people doing these builds are in a financial position where this is all just extra $. Granted things can and do happen to the best of us, but for the most part someone selling one of these are in a position where they will hold their price and are ok if it doesn’t sell OR taking a loss is a non-issue.

I look at what people lose on buying a new $75k car and can’t imagine someone who is $75k into an FSI built 997 is going to be more

jbkusa

Appreciate the input... I didn't know if having a FSI build has an effect like a Gunther Werks or Singer. I acknowledge that those builders are more than just engines.

Scalp_em

Singer and Gunther works are awesome but a completely other stratosphere. Interesting you bring that up because I think 997.1 may be the next gen of Porsche that will be “reimagined” like the 964 and 993( See “CSR Snakebite” video on YouTube)but that’s another topic all together….
I think the value of 911 with an FSI stage II would be equal to or a little more than a 997.2S in similar condition, spec and miles would be my guess, but who knows.

Sporty

Even thought the 997.2 is a better car overall in stock form, little things like the rear end, specifically the way they cut/cllpped the corner of the taillights ruins the 997.2 back side for me (same for 991.2 grille vs 991.1 slats) . So to me, a simple 997.1 with a built FSI+ motor and some nice deep dish Fuch-a-like wheels and the upgraded OEM PCM +would be a "reimagined" 997 to me. Who knows, in ten-twenty years it go for an inflation adjusted $100k (ala 993's).

I've had mine for a 17 years now, so to me to if I have to rebuild in another 5 years or when(if) it makes it to a 100k+ miles, the cost of a hot rod rebuild will be the cost of being "cooler" than the guy plunking down $200k+ for a new (automatic/electric) one

Love to put FSI 4.3 in this.....

sburke91

That's exactly what I'm shooting for with my 2006 C4S cab. I love the analog feel, and DFI engines like the 9A1 have their own sets of challenges (valve deposits, holes in the pistons from a stuck fuel injector--see BMW's 4.4l V8 in the 2010's). My goal for mine is to build the perfect 'analog with a touch of modern tech' 911, hopefully with a 4.1l FSI as its heart, and keep it until I die. I'd love to try for a ~500HP FSI R-Series, but my car wallet doesn't stretch that far.

Prairiedawg

I don't know, I love my 997.2 but on Tuesday I was invited to the Porsche Driving Experience at Road America. I was able to drive 2 laps in a brand new 992 GTS 4.0 and a C4GTS 4.0. I'm trying to decide which of my kids don't get to go to college 🤔.

It was that good.



3 CGTS and 1 4GTS. The 4 GTS had rear axle steering. Felt slightly slower than the 2wd. Could have all been in my head though.

The cars were amazing. The speed, the grip and the 4.0 sound out the back. And to get my first time in a place like Road America where you could open it up, I'll be chasing that high for the rest of my life

carguy999

If none of them go to college then you might be able to consider a GT car..

Prairiedawg

You sir are despicable.........I respect that.

qikqbn

I know I am late to the party but just chiming in.... I want to start off by saying that if you have already had an engine rebuild or are going through one... dang, that sucks, but in the long run I hope you enjoy the heck out of that newer and stronger engine.

I was one of the biggest defenders of the IMS issue back in the day and said they were overhyped back then. Did not say it did not exist, but that it was overhyped and lots of fear mongering going on which was not helping the 996/986/987/997.1 values. Well, look at what the market decided for those cars 10-15 years later and people realizing that there is still a lot of life left in those cars with an easy fix. I got lots push back from certain members over it back then, but in the end and as time marches on, forums seem to have accepted that IMS issues do happen in small numbers and time to accept and move on. Now, it's on to bore scoring fear mongering. In my opinion, it exists, but is overhyped as well. As time has marched on we also know that bore scoring is not exclusive to the earlier models like the 997.1, but actually happens to many newer models as well.

I continue to say overhyped, because I was thinking of this exact issue over another forum on a similar topic, but a good question to ask is how long can you live with bore scoring before getting it fixed. Considering the amount of new parts replaced, what difference does it make if you get the engine rebuilt with 1000 bore scored miles, or 25,000 bore scored miles??? I still have the Panorama magazine issue with an owner that drove his car an additional 25,000 miles before he decided to rebuild. Even when he decided to rebuild the engine still functioned, but he decided with the amount of oil burn, that it was time to rebuild. Now, I can agree to a point, that some day in the future many, not all, but many engines will need to be rebuilt.

I look at my scenario this way with my personal 997.1 C4S. I purchased it with 6000 miles 12 years ago. I have 93,000 miles today. I change the oil every 5000 miles. I have the oil analyzed each time. I have seen no signs of bore scoring as of yet. When that day comes and I see signs of scoring, I will keep an eye on it. At my current rate of 3000-4000 miles driven annually, I could have bore scoring for 8-10 years before deciding to rebuild. For me, I just don't see the "overhyped" idea that if you have any signs of scoring that your engine is toast/useless and it must be rebuilt immediately. Since no one can know for sure when the exact first score happened... who knows how long any of us have been driving with scored engines before we get to that day that we actually discover we have it. It may have been there already for years!

Until then, I will continue doing what I do. Drive it like a bat out of hell.

This takes me to my next issue... Porsche owners of every generation have been rebuilding their engines for as long as I can remember. Why is it so taboo for us to rebuild when necessary with our 15-17 year old Porsches that have been driven as designed, run to redline more often than most cars, and have given us thousands of happy miles??

997gr8

A 3.8 with bore scoring sounds like **** - personally, the ‘tap tap’ alone would drive me nuts, let alone the concerns over skirt plating flaking off into the engine etc.
I bought a Porsche for the feel of precision engineering, not to live with something that sounds like a 30 year old Ford truck with 200k miles on it.

Scalp_em

My similar story - I drove my car 12k miles after the first signs of scoring until it was sent to FSI. My initial symptoms were heavy soot on one side of the tailpipes that got heavier as time went on. I then kept track of oil consumption, switched to oil Driven FR-50, LN oil filter adapter, LN low temp thermostat and got UOA at every change. About 1/2 way into that 12k, I noticed that the intervals to top off oil were slightly getting smaller and smaller. At that point I got on the list with FSI. In those 14 months waiting to Sendín the car, I still drove it like a bat out of hell and enjoyed every minute of it! When it was time to send it to FSI, other than the sooty tailpipes and increased oil consumption(~400mi/qt at that point and shockingly still in Porsche spec) she still ran hard and strong. No knocking, smoke etc.
Other than the ridiculous oil consumption it was running fine. I told myself if once I heard knocking or smokey startups that I would reduce the amount of drive time and no longer send it, just cruise…but fortunately for me it never happened.
Now I’m going mad waiting for my car to get back to me sometime in late October early November. Fortunately I have been able to drive other fun cars but it’s not a 911

JustinCase

I also drove mine about 25,000 miles after diagnosing scored bores, with even more miles before it was diagnosed. I pretty much did all the same things as Scalp_em and never heard any piston slap or ticking until the day I drove it in to be rebuilt. It drove like an eager racehorse even into the shop. Oil filter inspections were always normal.

It was putting oil and gasoline in at seemingly the same volumes combined with fuel dilution showing up on my UOAs that made the call. Once the engine was apart, no other internal damage had been done except what I knew about 25,000 miles earlier. Even the IMS was in great shape!

That said, I am sure not all stories end the same way. Had I had ticking or slapping, I would likely have parked the car until I saved up the money, but there wasn't any, so I daily drove it.

Fahrer

My 2008 C2S has 38K miles on it without any indication it has bore scoring. No weird noises. No oil consumption. The only soot on the tail pipes is what was deposited during the break in period. During the 2k mile break in it did consume some oil. Broken in "by-the book". Always warmed up the right way ( light throttle and under 3K rpm until oil reaches 200F). I also always drive for at least 45 minutes. Oil change once per year / every ~3K miles.

bgoetz

I think they are all so different, mine started slapping when just the ferrostan had worn off, no scoring yet. It was remedied by swapping to a different brand oil, but I suspect it was just a matter of time before the sound came back.

yelcab

My 997.1 has light scoring on 4 and 6, soot on the left exhaust pipes, and uses one quart of oil about 2500 miles. I am driving it until it coughs up blood before it is disassembled for a rebuilt short block. My original logistical plan of doing the rebuild next year just blew up (side story of having to replace my daughter's Audi A3 this month instead of next year) so I am going to let the 997 ride on until it dies. I used to think that it is overhyped but it happens to my car. However, I am in the camp of "I'll drive it til it dies"