997gr8

I actually got under a couple of the cars and put my stethoscope on each cylinder wall, no.6 was definitely different. I also took audio recordings and sent them to a very renowned m96/97 engine builder - the response was an unequivocal “walk away”.
I also (for fun) took each of the sound recordings and imported them into “Audacity” to look at the signature (and frequency) of the “tick” - total bull**** methodology I’m sure, but I had some fun with it - convinced myself (probably incorrectly) that I was hearing the tap-tap of the piston skirt on the cylinder wall.

997gr8

Was it like this?

This was my 997.1 which never sounded like this before, but the day I pulled it out to send it for an engine rebuild, it sounded awful (as can be heard in the video). I had booked it for an “elective build” for increased capacity and more performance - when they received the car and tore down the engine, they confirmed scoring as well as wear on some of the main bearings.
(30k miles, excellent service record etc)

The 9A1’s (I saw for sale) had the same awful tap tap sound.

myw

they do score, but MUCH less likely due to the improved design (cooling, alusil, etc). i have noticed the scoring threads occasionally on both the 997 + 991 forums for the 9a1 engines.

if summer driven only + with proper oil warm up procedures followed - i doubt the chances of scoring warrant any real worry re a 9a1 engine scoring.

Jake Raby has chimed in many times over the years that he has seen many 9a1's score - more then we believe, but it is still less then to be alarmed about imho.

NevilleNobody

That's it! That slapping sound, it was louder in person 3 feet from the car though and CLEARLY came from the right side of the car. SLAP, SLAP, SLAP, SLAP......

BRS-LN

As time goes on the scoring with cylinder 1 in the 9a1 platform is being more clearly defined. In the past 10 days or so I've seen 3 conclusive reports of bore scoring with 9a1 engines that have been scoped and found to have visible scoring. All 3 of these had oil consumption issues that led to the scope being carried out. They ranged from a 2010 997.2 to a 2017 model year. All 3 of these had scoring on cylinder 1, which has clearly been the most problematic cylinder of all in regard to 9a1 platform.

myw

any running theories as to why cylinder 1?

BRS-LN

Mr. Raby hasn't released his theories about #1 scoring traits. This may happen in an upcoming tech series on bore scoring, but I am not sure.

Houndstooth

My indy said he’s seen bore scoring on 997.2s and 991s. I don’t know why people act like it’s exclusive to 997.1s. It’s not even exclusive to Porsche 911s. Happens on all sorts of vehicles.

997.1s are just the oldest and we have had enough time for them to accumulate high mileage and in some cases years of poor maintenance. I predict in the coming decade we will hear more and more about issues with the 9a1.

Carreralicious

That’s true, it happens with other car brands too, and I’ve seen a video from a Porsche tech on Youtube where he worked on a Macan with scoring and they put in a new engine. He ended up having to take several of his videos down and doesn’t post videos anymore.

997gr8

I believe this too, I viewed five m97/9A1 engines cars for sale, of those, 3 had the dreaded tap-tap (9A1), one I didn’t even start up, and the fifth one (991) was scoped and found to have very light scoring.

Patrick E

I feel like we’re at the point where we should expect all .1s will eventually experience scoring, it’s just a question of when.

Carreralicious

Which is why there needs to be more than just one shop to be able to competently rebuild these engines, and for less than $35-40K and a few years wait list! 😁 If there’s reputable shops that can do it for $15K in the UK, then why not here?

BRS-LN

It doesn't work like that. To comprehensively build these engines at this point many components are thrown away due to poor condition, or time in service. These cars and engines are not getting any newer, and the issues with failures and wear are taking their toll. A program like Flat 6 Innovations has throws away parts whether they are good or bad at the time of the practice being carried out. In the Rennvision interview with one of the UK builders last year, he admitted that they do not replace as many components as FSI does. They allow the owner to choose things like a water pump replacement, where FSI does not, and will not allow a purchaser to dictate this- the engine gets a new water pump (and many other items) no matter what. The same goes with the heat exchanger, and fuel injectors. As items are identified as potential issues they are replaced in standard form. The best way to avoid an issue in the future is to eliminate the possibility now. Trying to reuse components that have seen the end of their service life is the biggest mistake that can be made.
The FSI committed wait times are being eliminated. FSI tagged their line in January and have not sold an engine since, though they have received hundreds of requests. As they work off the current backlog we are building the LN- FSI engine program, where LN will sell and support all FSI engines exclusively. The FSI team will work in the background only. When engines are completed, and crated they are offered to a notification list where the first purchaser to reply and pay gets the engine. This means that someone could have an FSI engine installed by a Certified Installer with as little as a 2 weeks wait time, despite when they joined the list. FSI is forever done with absolute schedules and timelines, as well as standardized pricing. Today it costs more to build a 997.1 engine than FSI sold that same engine for only 18 months ago. We know this won't ever change, so working around this now will lead to a well defined future of continued success.
Engine production is going down- not up, and so are prices, but so is performance for all platforms.
Many people have come and gone who have tried to build these engines for less money. This will continue to occur, because you can't sustain a reputation with these engines unless you offer an exhaustedly effective list of components and process that have been refined and proven over 2 decades. The other essential is a properly trained Certified Installer that fits the orchestra into the engine bay following the FSI protocols that have been carried out in- house at FSI.

997gr8

Given that Porsche continued to use alusil on all their engines (including GT cars) until 2018, the engine building community will likely be busy for the next few decades

Carreralicious

Ok, but what if the owner of the engine that needs the rebuild just put in a new water pump or injectors, for example, why do they have to get another new set if they don’t need it? And what do you mean “production of these engines are going down, not up, and so are the prices?” You mean that prices are going up, right? Are you hearing that the UK builders who allow customers to bypass installing new ancillary components like water pumps and injectors are seeing their customers coming back with more failures again? On the contrary, I read many cases where they are happy with their services. I’m just wondering why there aren’t other options out there to do what the customer wants instead of just offering one way or the highway?

And aren’t there less and less air cooled engines out there too? Or even 986/996 engines out there? Why aren’t their rebuilds also in the $40K range? Just curious.