Charlie Liu

Hi, I found a 997.1 C4S (2008) in my area, here on the west coast of Canada. Would like to know what are some of the due diligence checks I should perform before I buy a used 997.1. Here are the specs of the car:

• Kilometres63,878 km
• StatusUsed
• TrimCarrera 4S NO ACCIDENT ONLY 63K KM
• Body TypeCoupe
• Engine3.8
• Cylinder6
• TransmissionAutomatic
• Drivetrain4x4
• Stock Number1932
• Exterior ColourBlack
• Interior ColourBlack
• Passengers4
• Doors2
• Fuel TypeGas
• City Fuel Economy12.5L - 12.9L/100km
• Hwy Fuel Economy8.1L - 8.4L/100km

Link to the car itself including pics: https://www.autotrader.ca/a/porsche/...201P8&sprx=100

Let me know your thoughts.

Optionman1

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ers-guide.html

start with this and pay close attn to the section on bore scoring. GET A THOROUGH PPI. Spend some $ upfront on your due diligence, these are great cars but the engine is everything. Don't fall in love with a car and take a chance, the downside car be very expensive.

Charlie Liu

Thanks. Based on the photos of the car, it does look like the left exhaust is bit sootier than the right. Are there different types of PPI that can be purchased as a service? I have never bought this service before so I am not sure what types of PPI are available.

Quixotic1

That tail pipe would worry me. A full PPI from a reputable shop including a bore scope is about $600 USD.

Optionman1

Most PPI are visual inspections by Porsche knowledgeable indys or Porsche dealership. They put the car on a lift and do an inspection. They can give you a good idea of overall condition and needed maintenance items. Most places have a PPI checklist. With the bore scoring problem you would want an invasive PPI which would include the regular stuff, but also they would drop the sump and put a scope in the cylinders from the bottom and look for signs of scoring. Not all sellers will agree to let it be performed as is their right. Call around to some Porsche mechanics even before you find a particular car and talk to them about the cost of a PPI, would they/can they do bore scoping, etc. It can run into the hundreds of $ to get a proper PPI, but you're considering a $60k+ 10+ year old car that can be very expensive if you run into a problem that could have otherwise been detected pre-purchase. Others may think I'm an alarmist, and I'm sure will chime in with counter opinions, Just my $.02 as the saying goes.

rileyracing1

From one Canadian to another 60k for this car is about 15k too much ... On average this car should sell for 45K IF it passes a proper PPI Without knowing any additional options as the car appears to be a "base model 4s from the pic's

Not to knock the car as from the pic's it appears to look in good clean shape but it has base seats it's an auto it does not have a full leather package (no stitching on dash or doors) and thus my reasoning for my valuation . Unless 997.1's sell in Vancouver for a premium for some reason ?? pull up some listings from the Toronto auto trader and you will understand where I am coming from.

Also as others have mentioned that left tail pipe is of concern ...

Amrit997

I agree with your points. I'm from Vancouver and based on comparables on the market, this car is in the average in pricing. 911s (and 997 in particular) do sell for a premium here. A search on local independents (Weissach) and main Porsche dealers will show clean .1 going around 60-65k and clean .2 for 68 and up. A 2012 black edition recently sold for around 70.

Petza914

That sootky left tailpipe most likely points to one of the Bank 2 (passenger side) cylinders having a problem. You could have the shop that does the PPI pull the spark plugs and from those, even without a boroscope, can probably tell which one it is. It's usually #6, followed by #4. Bore scoring is more prevalent in cold climate cars and this one vein gin Canada would certainly qualify. Proceed very carefully with this one.

mpath

I'm also local, and have seen this car on CL for the last couple of months. Not to suggest it's a bad car from the get go, but it's being sold from one of the many (questionable?) used car dealers on the Kingsway strip. IMHO, I'd stay away from these, particularly for Porsches. I got my C4S from Weissach - paid a bit of a premium, but their reputation is warranted. I'd give them a call first.

Oh, and don't pay the "$399 DOC Fee" BS.

rileyracing1

I would defiantly pass on this car ...You can do way better than this one just be patient and you will find one mainly with more options and a well documented service history in good health. This dealer is just spring fishing this car for all the beans and then some knowing at some point someone may bite on buying this car.

Just be ready to pounce on the right car as when they come up properly optioned in good health for the right price they won't last long as there are countless dealers always looking for good deals to make a quick 5-10k .

roadie13

The car looks fine except for the price and the (potential) bore scoring

Seriously, tiptronic cars from cold climates are believed to be more vulnerable to bore scoring because the tip in normal mode will start the car in second gear, putting extra strain and stress on a cold engine.

(Same power generated at lower revs implies higher forces in the cylinders.)

Orangecurrent

If the tailpipe is sooty - why bother... move on and keep the $1000. Be patient... Always get a PPI, but buy the seller, not the car.

Charlie Liu

Hi everyone,

I did not expect this many replies to my post given that I just joined yesterday. Thank you very much for the support so far. I have decided to completely abandon the 997.1 generation after reading more in-depth into the potential issues as well as some super informative videos on YouTube.

On another note, I found a 997.2 (C2) with 187000 km being sold by a private seller on AutoTrader for around $50,000 (link). The specs are below:

• Kilometres186,000 km
• StatusUsed
• Trim2dr Cpe Carrera
• Body TypeCoupe
• TransmissionAutomatic
• DrivetrainRWD
• Exterior ColourBlack
• Doors2 doors
• Fuel TypeGasoline
• Owners3

Based on inquiry with the seller, I have summarized the information that I have gathered so far below:

• Any accidents? No
• What is the reason you are selling? I bought a 1987 911 carrera so I’ll never be able to drive both, I would keep it otherwise.
• How often do you maintain the car? I’ve had it 2 years and it’s has oil and filters changed yearly on schedule and the PDK service was done at the dealer last year, also on schedule (every 90k kms). New tires in 2019 on the wheels that are on it. Brakes have lots of life, if you’re picky it should probably have the brake fluid flushed this year, I did it when i first bought it.
• Please provide a brief overview of the information you were able to gather from the previous owner (service records, cosmetic issues, mechanical issues etc.):
  • bought it april 6 2019 from the previous owner, who was in Washington State originally, and had just moved to Maryland and had a second child so needed to sell it for something more appropriate.
  • He bought it from the Chicago area, and it was inspected prior to his purchase by a porsche shop in Chicago, and passed with flying colours, the car apparently had most of the service records at that time
  • The only thing that it needed when I got it (other than fluids changed) was a new set of tires, changed the wheels at that time to a set of new 2008 carrera 4S wheels since the rears are wider.
  • The previous owner had wheel spacers on it to fill the fenders, but the wider wheels do a better job and could run 295 width tires on it.
  • It had clearshield paint protection film on it, most likely from new, which was removed prior to my buying it because it had started to fade (the plastic wrap, not the paint) and the original paint underneath is in great shape
  • a few very minor chips, but looks great especially for the age and mileage
  • All the electronics are working properly, mirrors seats windows doors stereo nav spoiler etc.
  • dealer here inspected it when they did the PDK service (December 2020), and there was nothing that they noted it needed at that time
  • The service was up to date and they noticed no issues or faults in the computers, brakes were at 40%
  • been on an 1800 road trip when first bought, and other back road tours since then
  • there were a number of acorns that fell on the car in owner's driveway (while under a cover) causing a few small dents (like light hail dents almost)
  • repaired by a paintless dent removal shop recommended by the dealer, no paintwork was done and there is no evidence remaining of anything
  • new wipers installed in fall 2020
• the seller also noted that he is willing to bring it to a shop or the dealer for a PPI, and it would be sold “certified” in Ontario

So far, I'm satisfied with the responses given by the seller. However, given that I am located in BC, there are a few more complications even if I was interested in purchasing. Please see below for a few questions that I would appreciate if some of you could chime in on:

1. Is there a difference between a PPI done at a shop compared to a dealer?
2. What is the average cost of a PPI (assuming that I would pay for this)?
3. Are there any other questions I should ask the seller?
4. What is the general consensus on cars with multiple owners?
5. Should I ask for a carfax report? Do sellers or buyers usually pay for this?
6. Any reputable freight companies that specialize in transporting cars between provinces? If so, what is the average cost of shipping?

sandwedge

Better choice than the first one you posted imo. The 997.2 has some significant improvements over the 997.1. The IMS is gone, bore scoring seems less common and since you seem to prefer a transmission with an auto option you get a PDK instead of a TIP. Night and day. The PDK is a dual clutch manual transmission without the third pedal while the TIP prior to the 2009 introduction of the PDK was an old fashioned regular automatic made by Mercedes Benz I believe. Very sturdy and almost fail proof based on commentary here and elsewhere.

This car has some miles on it. Close to 116,000 if I did the conversion right from km to miles. So I would get as much as you can get your hands on in terms of maint. records followed up with a thorough PPI. What the seller tells you may mean something or it may mean nothing unless you know him/her personally.

One more thing. The PDK transmission as I said is completely different than the TIP. No comparison. Comes with a price though, both in terms of purchase price and cost of repair. Failures are very rare but very expensive when they occur so if you pursue this car, consider some kind of after market warranty policy depending on your risk tolerance. Again, failures are rare but a replacement unit will set you back around $20,000. I've been very unlucky with two PDK failures which is why I bring this up in case you're not aware of the cost of repair/replacement.