When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
They are lovely cars. I belong to the Manhattan CCC and we have a nice 993C4S which is fun, but perhaps my favorite car in the fleet is a heavily breathed-on 964 that is on coilovers, and bored to 3.8 with higher-comp pistons etc etc supposedly putting out around 350hp. It is absolutely lovely to drive. I love everything about the car, but it is in no way a dd. Still, if you have the room/$, a nicely reworked 964 or 993 is really a joy.
That said, I have already fallen in love with my 997.2S and don't see myself selling it. It is a great dd and for at least another couple years will be, until I perhaps get something else to put the miles on (I drive about 18k/year)...plus the color combo is what I've always wanted since I was a kid. I still pinch myself that I get to drive it everyday.
I had a 964 that I dropped about $70k into in 2004 that was pretty well documented on here. I did suspension, weight loss, factory RS seats, interior and etc. Did a Ruf build, built the engine out to 3.8 with internals and then did a Lenz stand alone fuel management system. I was around 300hp or so at the wheels with a huge, flat torque curve for NA engine. I cannot recall torque numbers, but we were tuning for area under the curve, not peak, with the stand alone fuel management system and it seemed like we were hitting 270 torque at the wheels. I really cannot recall exactly and it may have been more, but this is why I was so curious about what Raby was getting out of his 4.0s.
Anyway, that car was a blast to drive and I want it back. I looked for it for years hoping it would turn back up for sale one day. Any NA air cooled 911 just kind of bores me to death after that car.
I had a 964 that I dropped about $70k into in 2004 that was pretty well documented on here. I did suspension, weight loss, factory RS seats, interior and etc. Did a Ruf build, built the engine out to 3.8 with internals and then did a Lenz stand alone fuel management system. I was around 300hp or so at the wheels with a huge, flat torque curve for NA engine. I cannot recall torque numbers, but we were tuning for area under the curve, not peak, with the stand alone fuel management system and it seemed like we were hitting 270 torque at the wheels. I really cannot recall exactly and it may have been more, but this is why I was so curious about what Raby was getting out of his 4.0s.
Anyway, that car was a blast to drive and I want it back. I looked for it for years hoping it would turn back up for sale one day. Any NA air cooled 911 just kind of bores me to death after that car.
I had a 964 that I dropped about $70k into in 2004 that was pretty well documented on here. I did suspension, weight loss, factory RS seats, interior and etc. Did a Ruf build, built the engine out to 3.8 with internals and then did a Lenz stand alone fuel management system. I was around 300hp or so at the wheels with a huge, flat torque curve for NA engine. I cannot recall torque numbers, but we were tuning for area under the curve, not peak, with the stand alone fuel management system and it seemed like we were hitting 270 torque at the wheels. I really cannot recall exactly and it may have been more, but this is why I was so curious about what Raby was getting out of his 4.0s.
Anyway, that car was a blast to drive and I want it back. I looked for it for years hoping it would turn back up for sale one day. Any NA air cooled 911 just kind of bores me to death after that car.
Also I'm a little skeptical of the claimed power figure on the club's 964 - I'm guessing it's closer to 320 or so crank. Still - it is a very very strong engine, pushing around relatively little weight. It still has the stock glass but has a stripped interior/no AC or heat/no sound system etc etc
This is interior stuff. It had already been done over by Ruf at this time. I had removable roll cage and the amps were on two quick release trays. I had a 996 GT3 Cup back then so this was only a toy for the street.
My 2001 996tt in the blow picture had 750 hp, Hhbrids, GT3 intercoolers, internals and etc.
I know it's not a 993, but this 964 build with 3.8 liter would be a dream project. I am torn between 993 and 964 at times. I love the hips on the 993, but then love the traditional torpedo fenders on the 964.
1st vid shows engine build. 2nd video shows dyno, but admits a better tune would help because of air fuel ratios get really rich. Probably could net 260-270 at wheels which would be 310-320 at crank. Sounds great.
To the OP: what you compared are two points in PAG's ever growing softening/driver isolating curve. And the 993 is already very high in that curve - as it has very little of the original 911. These things cannot be compared on a quest to find which one is best. They are not comparable. But yes, a classic 911 is special and the 993 is the least classic, with its assisted steering, hydraulic clutch, soft transmission, and multi-link/McPherson suspension. For a real classic try anything prior to 1987 and most people (not 911 fans) will not like them.
I still like the 993tt. Had a base 993tt and a 993tt S way back in the day and I have always kicked the idea around of getting another one. A close buddy of mine has one I still spend some time in on occasion. At the end of the day the car really does not do much for me any more, even the turbo. I definitely would not want a NA version. Nostalgia is good . . . for about a day or a couple of hours here and there. Purchasing a widebody 4S/tt/s to time capsule (i.e., not put many miles on) makes a fair amount of sense, but purchasing one to drive makes absolutely zero sense. For the price of turbo, I can get Nirvana . . . a 458 . . . and $90k for an S makes no sense whatsoever. Purchase a NB 993 and get the same, albeit not exhilarating, driving experience.as the 4S for 1/2 the price or get a 997.2 GTS manual Coupe for the same price and get a vastly superior car in every category.
I agree. Hence I will settle for what I have. I like time capsule stuff. It's an addiction. I have a NIB 1970 Omega Speedmaster never worn. A pair of McIntosh MC75 monoblocks from the 1960's, neer plugged in and still in the wrappers. And don't get me started on motorcycles.
The 993 C4S is beautiful, like I said. Seems like you have to work harder at getting it up to speed compared to my 2012 GTS, True $94k is all the money, but a 1997 car with 18k miles is a rarity.
They are lovely cars. I belong to the Manhattan CCC and we have a nice 993C4S which is fun, but perhaps my favorite car in the fleet is a heavily breathed-on 964 that is on coilovers, and bored to 3.8 with higher-comp pistons etc etc supposedly putting out around 350hp. It is absolutely lovely to drive. I love everything about the car, but it is in no way a dd. Still, if you have the room/$, a nicely reworked 964 or 993 is really a joy.
That said, I have already fallen in love with my 997.2S and don't see myself selling it. It is a great dd and for at least another couple years will be, until I perhaps get something else to put the miles on (I drive about 18k/year)...plus the color combo is what I've always wanted since I was a kid. I still pinch myself that I get to drive it everyday.
I'd love to see a few [pics of that color! Any chance?
I've been on the hunt for a 993, and found an amazing example of a 1997 C4S with under 18k miles. Expensive but beautiful.
I went out to inspect it with the owner. Hell of a great guy. I drove my 2012 GTS out so I could really do a side by side comparison. To my shock, the owner said "Keys are in it. Go take a drive" I guess he could tell I was a real guy, but he didn't even see the car I drove up in.
As expected, it is impressive. The door closing thunk so many people mention. Comfortable and small. It was a tight little package. I didn't care for the feel of the clutch compared to my 997.2. The driving position felt more "upright" somehow. Another thread called it "like driving a truck" or something like that. I certainly wouldn't call it THAT but it IS different.
It's a great car and I couldn't help but appreciate it, BUT the 997 simply feels much more willing and ready to accelerate. The 997 is much more free-wheeling. The difference in torque was substantial.
The 993 is a beautiful car and when you see a time capsule it's pretty easy to fall in love. Then I have to say to myself "Be reasonable...if you get this you should get rid of another car" I can't say I would do that this time.
oh wow. PTS Azure Blue with X51?! That is a dream car right there!
Thank you! X51 was added a few months after delivery by first owner but done right. One of the other guys on@hexagone knows the previous owner - I actually spoke to him briefly about the car prior to it being sold to a dealer, who I then bought it from. It really is a lovely color.
01-25-2020, 01:59 PM
