Guide to Repairing a PDK Transmission
#1156
Striking spectrum; completely different models.
I believe two had distance sensor codes as well. Obviously we replaced distance sensors “while we were there” on the other two.
You’re correct. Only additional charge is for the part.
Are we compelled to offer a warranty on “the entire job” rather than just the components that we replace? Only by conscience. We learned decades ago that people tend to get a bit frustrated and angry if a future failure could have been prevented had we offered wise counsel and required preventive service options during the process.
We also learned that if the customer declines said options and a failure occurs that they often justify throwing a tantrum and possibly giving a bad review even though they were sternly warned, and even signed a disclaimer. We refuse to put ourselves in that position. It’s simply not good business. Great questions.
I believe two had distance sensor codes as well. Obviously we replaced distance sensors “while we were there” on the other two.
You’re correct. Only additional charge is for the part.
Are we compelled to offer a warranty on “the entire job” rather than just the components that we replace? Only by conscience. We learned decades ago that people tend to get a bit frustrated and angry if a future failure could have been prevented had we offered wise counsel and required preventive service options during the process.
We also learned that if the customer declines said options and a failure occurs that they often justify throwing a tantrum and possibly giving a bad review even though they were sternly warned, and even signed a disclaimer. We refuse to put ourselves in that position. It’s simply not good business. Great questions.
Sorry for the nagging questions but learning about failure modes is something I'm really interested in.
It seems very unlikely (clearly not impossible) you would get two entirely separate sensors fail in the one transmission. Did it look like a common problem, maybe wiring or the plug, that may have caused both to fail? Were the failed sensors bench tested for individual response once separated. This may not have been done but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Also, have you ever had any issues with speed sensor response once fitted? Every one I've fitted has been plug and play without issue, which is pretty normal for any other type of speed sensor.
Thanks again
Last edited by jjrichar; 02-04-2023 at 10:17 PM.
#1157
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Any ideas on how a bad speed sensor manifests as a temperature error?
And any particular temp error code pattern?
Thanks.
Karl.
Last edited by wjk_glynn; 02-05-2023 at 02:54 PM.
#1158
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.
Sorry for the nagging questions but learning about failure modes is something I'm really interested in.
It seems very unlikely (clearly not impossible) you would get two entirely separate sensors fail in the one transmission. Did it look like a common problem, maybe wiring or the plug, that may have caused both to fail? Were the failed sensors bench tested for individual response once separated. This may not have been done but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Also, have you ever had any issues with speed sensor response once fitted? Every one I've fitted has been plug and play without issue, which is pretty normal for any other type of speed sensor.
Thanks again
Sorry for the nagging questions but learning about failure modes is something I'm really interested in.
It seems very unlikely (clearly not impossible) you would get two entirely separate sensors fail in the one transmission. Did it look like a common problem, maybe wiring or the plug, that may have caused both to fail? Were the failed sensors bench tested for individual response once separated. This may not have been done but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Also, have you ever had any issues with speed sensor response once fitted? Every one I've fitted has been plug and play without issue, which is pretty normal for any other type of speed sensor.
Thanks again
Add to that there is no mechanism that I can imagine which would cause both to fail, they are decoupled and failure of one does not make the other any more likely to fail. In fact, the odds of both independently failing on the same transmission would be astronomical (since compound failure rates are multiplicative). Plus we have no reason to think that the T-Design speed sensor is any more reliable than the factory sensor. Maybe we will some day, but we don't now. Preventative replacement just doesn't make sense IMO (same with the distance sensor).
I'm glad we now have a replacement option and shops are certainly entitled to do what they think is in the customer's best interest. But this seems like it needs more thought before it becomes a routine practice, particularly since the new speed sensor is very expensive. If it was a couple of percent increase in the total job cost then I get it, but it's more like a 20+% increase.
The following users liked this post:
byroncheung (02-13-2023)
#1159
Rennlist Member
Until someone can come up with a failed speed sensor for RC analysis, it does seem speculative to replace them "while you're in there."
The following users liked this post:
byroncheung (02-13-2023)
#1160
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
#1161
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Can you share a bit more?
Any particular pattern to the temperature errors preceding the speed sensor failure?
Thanks.
Karl.
#1162
Rennlist Member
Hi @notfastenough, super curious to know more.
Can you share a bit more?
Any particular pattern to the temperature errors preceding the speed sensor failure?
Thanks.
Karl.
Can you share a bit more?
Any particular pattern to the temperature errors preceding the speed sensor failure?
Thanks.
Karl.
I can understand DIY'ers may be willing to take a chance, but legit shops would be foolish not to replace both sensors while in there. Even with a very low failure rate I refuse to put ourselves into a situation where an out-of-state owner has a breakdown because we cheaped out.
#1164
Instructor
@PV997, We've replaced 4 speed sensors in the last 6 months. Unfortunately having to provide tested used ones as a replacement part was less than ideal but until now we had no choice. (Glad we stocked up on core PDK boxes though!) It's happening often enough that prudence dictates that we replace them along with the distance sensor. As a shop that includes a generous warranty and a reputation to uphold, we have much more on the line if there's a failure down the road; any failure. The first clue for a bad speed sensor is a high temperature code.
#1165
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
Just got a car in that needed a speed sensor - it's not a common issue but it is a real thing.
__________________
Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
www.ATLspeedwerks.com
Porsche repairs, servicing, and upgrades / Certified IMS installer / PDK repair experts
Over 150 PDK's repaired and counting: https://youtu.be/m54P_zisEcI
Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks
www.ATLspeedwerks.com
Porsche repairs, servicing, and upgrades / Certified IMS installer / PDK repair experts
Over 150 PDK's repaired and counting: https://youtu.be/m54P_zisEcI
#1166
Rennlist Member
@notfastenough i'm going to replace my distance sensor soon i'm thinking if i should get the speed sensor replaced while in there. to get a sense of how common the speed sensor problem is relative to the distance sensor problem - how many distance sensors you guys have done in the last 6 months (v.s. 4 speed sensors)?
Byron, I'm going to offer some free advice (again). Four months ago I believe both Todd Lamb and I advised you that your problem was the distance sensor. You've been kicking against the goads ever since. Don't make the same mistake again; suck it up and replace the speed sensor!
You're welcome.
#1167
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#1168
Thread sizes for PDK pulling tool
Hi gents,Does anyone please have the sizes for the threads at the rear of the gearbox. The upper thread is slightly larger than the lower and I can’t for the life of me on any of the walk-throughs find what thread sizes they are. Any information or direction on where I might find them greatly appreciated
#1169
Instructor
Suffice to say we've replaced a buttload of distance sensors so it's a low percentage of failures on speed sensors.
Byron, I'm going to offer some free advice (again). Four months ago I believe both Todd Lamb and I advised you that your problem was the distance sensor. You've been kicking against the goads ever since. Don't make the same mistake again; suck it up and replace the speed sensor!
You're welcome.
Byron, I'm going to offer some free advice (again). Four months ago I believe both Todd Lamb and I advised you that your problem was the distance sensor. You've been kicking against the goads ever since. Don't make the same mistake again; suck it up and replace the speed sensor!
You're welcome.
As for the speed sensor, I think I will roll my dice, doesn't seem to be as common of a problem compared to the distance sensor, and I'm willing to take my chance here to save a thousand dollars.
Again, thanks for your time, input, and contribution, not just to my particular problem but to this whole PDK failure scene in general.
Last edited by byroncheung; 02-14-2023 at 05:50 PM.
#1170
Rennlist Member