Engine access 997 vs 991 and up...
06-12-2019, 10:29 AM
#1
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Engine access 997 vs 991 and up...
Am I the only one who is annoyed that after the 997, Porsche decided to remove the ability for owners to just open the rear lid to gain access to the engine? That’s one of the reasons I didn’t even look for a 991. I was already mad that they got rid of a real oil dipstick, but having to remove the rear bumper cover and tail lights to even see the engine?!
I don’t know if anyone is as OCD as me on this, but the first thought I have if letting my car being serviced at the dealer is that the tech will not be as meticulous about things as me, and for sure if I checked afterwards, that there would be screws not put back when refitting the bumper or even damaging tabs on the tail lights and such (something that I found actually happened when a dealer changed a tail light bulb when the previous owner of my 997 took it to the dealer). I like to be able to just open the engine lid compartment and check for things like low fluids or a cracked poly rib belt and such. Ok, rant over.
I don’t know if anyone is as OCD as me on this, but the first thought I have if letting my car being serviced at the dealer is that the tech will not be as meticulous about things as me, and for sure if I checked afterwards, that there would be screws not put back when refitting the bumper or even damaging tabs on the tail lights and such (something that I found actually happened when a dealer changed a tail light bulb when the previous owner of my 997 took it to the dealer). I like to be able to just open the engine lid compartment and check for things like low fluids or a cracked poly rib belt and such. Ok, rant over.
06-12-2019, 10:41 AM
#2
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Changing the engine air filter on the 991s requires removal of the bumper. Just seems like more and more annoying to work on your car at home.
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maschinetheist (09-05-2020)
06-12-2019, 10:57 AM
#3
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Yeah, I saw a YouTube video of a guy removing his rear bumper and tail lights to get to the air box and it took him like 30 minutes! What a pain.
06-12-2019, 02:58 PM
#4
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Agreed, servicing your car yourself is no longer a priority or profitable for Porsche, so for packaging and profitability reasons they hid the engine. One more reason 997 is one of the last true 911s produced.
06-13-2019, 08:04 AM
#5
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Not just you.
I have no interest in a 911 newer than a 997.2.
I have no interest in a 911 newer than a 997.2.
06-13-2019, 12:19 PM
#6
I'm not a fan of that move in the industry.
On the other end of the spectrum is my '04 Jeep TJ Rubicon, where you can open the hood and see your feet below.
It's obviously not just Porsche moving that direction. Just about every new car has completed sealed up the engine compartment. I'm not aware of any performance or efficiency gains that come from sealing the engine bay under the hood.
I don't work in the auto industry, but my thinking on it is that it is intended to signal to the owner that they are not qualified to work on this vehicle. Take it to the dealer. But what does the manufacturer get out of that arrangement? It has gone along with dealers having a big push to sell warranties as well as a rise of people who aren't willing to buy/own a car out of warranty. I would have to think that the dealers have been pushing for this to get business into their shop where they do make margin. Aside from dealers charging ADM, the auto industry just doesn't allow them to get much margin on their new car sales any more. Combined with a warranty system that creates a moral hazard situation where the owner doesn't care what the repair cost is, dealerships have probably found their goose laying the golden egg. Removing all those plastic panels adds time to every repair/inspection, which increases the "shop time" which renders more revenue.
I'm going to own more cars in my lifetime. I've progressively gotten used to removing plastic panels to do work. First from the under body and now from atop the engine. It's not that big a deal to me. I really, really like my 997.2 and chose it over a 991.1 when I could have bought either. The steering switch to electric was the bigger thing to me, not so much the covered engine. But at some point, I definitely would consider a 991 or 992. And I won't be afraid to work on it myself.
At least until they go hybrid. I do have some reservations about working around high voltage systems that can kill you.
On the other end of the spectrum is my '04 Jeep TJ Rubicon, where you can open the hood and see your feet below.
It's obviously not just Porsche moving that direction. Just about every new car has completed sealed up the engine compartment. I'm not aware of any performance or efficiency gains that come from sealing the engine bay under the hood.
I don't work in the auto industry, but my thinking on it is that it is intended to signal to the owner that they are not qualified to work on this vehicle. Take it to the dealer. But what does the manufacturer get out of that arrangement? It has gone along with dealers having a big push to sell warranties as well as a rise of people who aren't willing to buy/own a car out of warranty. I would have to think that the dealers have been pushing for this to get business into their shop where they do make margin. Aside from dealers charging ADM, the auto industry just doesn't allow them to get much margin on their new car sales any more. Combined with a warranty system that creates a moral hazard situation where the owner doesn't care what the repair cost is, dealerships have probably found their goose laying the golden egg. Removing all those plastic panels adds time to every repair/inspection, which increases the "shop time" which renders more revenue.
I'm going to own more cars in my lifetime. I've progressively gotten used to removing plastic panels to do work. First from the under body and now from atop the engine. It's not that big a deal to me. I really, really like my 997.2 and chose it over a 991.1 when I could have bought either. The steering switch to electric was the bigger thing to me, not so much the covered engine. But at some point, I definitely would consider a 991 or 992. And I won't be afraid to work on it myself.
At least until they go hybrid. I do have some reservations about working around high voltage systems that can kill you.
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maschinetheist (09-05-2020)
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06-14-2019, 01:50 PM
#10
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A large part of the reason for covering access also relates to warranty expenses. Manufacturers do not want customers playing with the cars and then fighting over warranty issues, even though there are plenty of disclaimers.
Two really good books for those of us who like to see the dipstick and the engine:
Two really good books for those of us who like to see the dipstick and the engine:
- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert Pirsig, and
- Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work, by Matthew Crawford