groovzilla

I'd be curious to here from our fellow 997 owners/997 Forum members whether they believe these Bore Scoring videos and the like is a conflict of interest?
After all, promoting end of the world drama when such a small % of engines are effected seems like a fishing expedition.

I've been around Porsche cars for 40 years and have owned almost every 356 model as well as every 911 model from 1953 - 2007
Almost every Porsche model engine manufactured has had issues, but they were much more prevalent in earlier models and the numbers of problematic issues in the 997 is no where near engines of the past. These 997 issues only effect a very small % but these days we seem to have a commercialization of the drama and it feeds into the 997 community like a bad disease.

I couldn't be happier with my 2007 C4S - I have no IMS or Bore Scoring issues and my car w/77K miles burns 1 qt of oil every 3000 miles.
I also owned my 2005 997S 2 years ago and that car was also problem free with no oil burn issues.

These promoting of BS videos reminds me of the late night Ambulance chasing Attorney commercials on TV.
...And I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just get a bad taste in my mouth with all the drama circling this Forum.

Anyone have some input on this??

C4SDayton

Some or most of these sponsors seem to provide good advice. Giving guidance about how to hopefully reduce bore scoring and such is helpful because there are things people can control even if common sense, like warming up engine properly. The TR guy can chime in on what tires are available or on sale and give advice about not using summer tires in the snow, common sense. The Motul rep can tell people what oils meet Porsche specs and educate on oil analysis. It's good advertising to educate on bore scoring and pick up business for the small number that will get it. When you are an engine builder or parts supplier, perhaps it's a conflict to tell people to use a particular pruduct that is at the high end and in short supply, UNLESS you have some decent data on why it is superior to back it up,. You can say whatever you want without data, and it can be hard to question anyone with a good reputation.

docdrs

Drama, only if it happens to you. I look at these as informative and educational. They address a situation that can occur in these motors, how to diagnose, and how it can be fixed. It does happen and they can make a living from it. Yes it is maybe 1,5, or 10%. Maybe it has to do with the way the car is driven and the climate. Its multifactorial but it does happen. Whats the big deal? Jake has spent considerable time identifying and documenting this to help out the few who want more info. He is just the messenger and you want to shoot him. Just be happy that 90 - 99% do not experience this. I see no conflict, its not like Jake or anyone can cause a porsche to have an IMS or Bore Scoring issue. But your post is entertaining.

rileyracing1

No conflict any information is good information and how you choose to interpret it is entirely up to you . If anywhere that this issue is going to get blown way out of proportion... it's going to be here.

LittleBitBent

I am grateful that (a) it hasn’t happened to me, and that (b) if it ever does (IMS or bore score) that there are knowledgeable people on this forum who know how to diagnose and treat.

Bruce In Philly

No... this is not a conflict of interest. They are not selling shiny exhaust parts claiming more HP.

Your car either breaks or it doesn't. No one is going to "think" they have bore scoring and spend $20K for a false repair.

This kind of a thread can turn hostile to folks like Jake. Please be nice.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

vern1

The only one providing the drama here is you. If you dont like those threads, dont read them. But the info is solid/productive and helpful. Stick your head in the sand if you choose to

And thanks for the other thread input on all the terrible engine faults that Porsche produced, demonstrated well that Porsche cant make a decent engine. Although the m97 is still the low point . And a top end rebuild is not the same as having your engine blow up (and pls let me know where you got the 3% from)

JustinCase

^^^ This.

My car did suffer from bore score (the IMS bearing was in perfect shape when the engine was dismantled). My indy (Chris's German Auto, whom you are probably familiar with) was very patient and tolerated my many visits while he was rebuilding my engine. What I learned going through this process with him is completely consistent with what has more recently been presented in these videos. One has to keep in mind that virtually 100% of all the 997s seen by Flat Six, or LN Engineering, or Hartech, have failed engines, shaping their perspectives. That said, they have not seen 100% of all 997s. Many owners will completely escape these problems, but I am also aware of some others who have symptoms who are whistling past the graveyard as I write this.

When my engine was disassembled, it also had worn chain guides and chain tensioner. I would not be surprised to see other problems like these start cropping up with increasing frequency as these cars age and wear, with a disproportionate percentage bringing them to this forum.

I also believe that this forum itself is skewed with an abnormal percentage of people bringing up any and all other problems I have not had (e.g., water pump failures, snapped shift cables, messed up AC temperature and fan controls, MAF or AOS problems, broken trunk or engine lid switch, scuffed sills, etc., etc.). I read these posts, which make me informed in case I do have these problems, and give me some reassurance and specific instructions on how they may be addressed. Every now and then, I really need this information and I know where to find it.

This is also how I feel about Jake Raby's videos (at least someone is organizing and analyzing causes) and LN Engineering's various posts, videos, or white papers, and Baz' very thorough and informative posts. These are provided for free, even to their competitors. I'm sure it's a calculated risk on their respective parts, but one which I am personally very grateful.

But when I log out, I don't spend any time worrying about things that have not happened to me. I just really enjoy my car, which is my daily driver.

Since nothing has happened to your engine, count your blessings and keep doing what you are doing. That's a very good sign for you.

And may you never have to go through what I had to. But based on the rate engines are being shipped to LN Engineering to be remanufactured for bore score, it is a real problem -- not our imagination. We are not alarmists or trolls. We just write about our own personal experiences -- just like you.

HenryPcar

Subscribed.

groovy dude

I don't think LN & Flat Six are creating hype in this case, since no one is going to send their engine to them unless the cylinders actually scored, and they don't stand to profit if every 997 owner ran out and bought new injectors today. I'm a bit leery of the low temperature thermostat as a preventative measure though, but it's a pretty low margin item so I don't see that they're making all this noise just to sell a few thermostats. Furthermore, they stand to loose a lot of money in rebuilds if their proactive measures actually work to prevent scoring.

sequel95

When we get amazing information from these sponsors who have seen more M96/97 failures than most shops, we can learn a lot from them. The company in the U.K. (Baz from Hartech) has given us gold nugget after gold nugget and has been nothing but helpful - and no one from the states is shipping their car or engine to him! I've been to the LN Engineering facility in IL, and it is impressive, and Charles and staff are great guys. They know castings and metal, and can walk a layperson through complex discussions on alloys, etc.

cwheeler

More information is better than less. I enjoy very much the information that Jake is putting out. If it helps prevent issues, I'm all for it. If it helps me recognize it early, I'm all for it. I like to know everything I can about my car. And this is one more thing to learn and digest.

Cw

Gadsby

Friends cayman had bore scored motor and i had a gl550 which developed scoring both within last two years.

Its real as it gets.

4Driver4

I'm confused about how generating hype about bore scoring and/or IMSB would benefit any of the forum sponsors.

For bore scoring risk reduction, they recommend frequent oil changes and driving style modification.
For IMSB, they recommend internal seal removal for the 2005.5 and on 997's.

Neither of this things puts much money in their pockets, so where is the motivation? I guess that you could argue that they are pimping the Solution or Retrofit, but that only impacts the early 2005 cars, a small portion of the 997s. For most anyone here with an intact engine, the most they can hope for by generating hype is the sale of a few more quarts of oil and some filters.

MexicoBlueTurboS

If the problem was significant wouldn't it show in the cost of buying an extended warranty during that era? Does anyone have any memories or reference points for warranty prices on 997.1s once some scoring and d-chunks had become apparent?