Kg11

I find myself drawn to an upgraded 997.1, either with a rebuilt 4.0 or something has had some suspension work done. I drove a stock 997.1 a few years back and wasn't super impressed, We ended up getting a 991 with sport suspension, as it was so much more connected to the road. The 997.1 with PASM felt a bit bouncy and obsolete; it was a 55,000 mile car, sure, but I wasn't impressed enough to dump my M3 at the time for it. I liked the engine though. These seem like plenty of car for $35-45,000.

With prices down, I wonder if it would be a good time to revisit the 997.1 idea. There are a few 4.0 cars floating around, and it wouldn't be that hard to find one with some upgraded suspension components (like coilovers, sway bars, control arms). I really want to get back into a "connected car", something with GT level suspension (I can't really afford a GT3), which is something that most Carreras I have driven over the years lack (the 991 with the sport option being an exception). I want to do some driving events, some autocross, and really learn how to drive the car. I don't need 500hp to do that, but I do want something with great feedback.

Note; a Cayman S or R (2009-2012) is also an option. It MUST be a manual.

I love the smaller size of the 997, but after having driven the 991 (and, more recently a 2015 GT3 at an autocross), I want something that "feels" like this. Like a real sportscar, where every bump in the road is giving feedback.

Can this be accomplished in the 997 platform, while still being reasonable around town? The GT3 was not too stiff; it was goldilocks.

Hella-Buggin'

That's the first time I've heard anyone say that the 991 was more connected to the road than a 997.1.
More compliant maybe cut connected? The .1 Version of PASM isn't as sophisticated but adding a DSC unit is apparently the
best bang for the buck in terms of updating the suspension. Coil overs will result in a much bouncier ride.

Kg11

Well, it was my first time in a 911, but the car wasn't that impressive to be honest. Then again, I was coming out of a M3 (I was daily driving a 135is) and the latter car has a lot of torque. The guy who's car I was driving didn't tell me that I needed to get the power up above 5,000 rpm to make the motor sing. Still though, it wasn't as tight as I expected, and decided not to pursue a 911 until I got in the Sport PASM 991. That car was epic

I think the 997 can be that car (no reason it can't) as the GT3 certainly doesn't disappoint. I don't need that Mezger engine, but the 997.2 GT3's suspension feels about perfect. I don't know if a kit is offered that is similar to the BMW 1M, but something like that car would be sweet. Not a full GT3, but carryover suspension components that give the car GT3-like feel.

Petza914

Here's the car you should start with and very quickly (no affiliation) - https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1131843

I have a feeling you drove a base car and not an S. If you were coming from a more powerful car like the M3, the base model can feel a little light on power and the S has that "goldilocks" feel. Also, if you drove an AWD model, like a C4, you don't get the same feedback through the steering wheel that wou do with a RWD. You need to drive a C2S and reevaluate.

My 997.1 is heavily modified, including the suspension with TPCs DSC fully active suspension controller, Stage 2 RSS Tarmac series setup that eliminates all the rubber bushings from the suspension - rear dog bones, LCAs, toe steer kits, camber lock plates, front monoball top mounts, adjustable sway bars and drop links, along with Bilstein B16 Damptronics.

The car is razor precise, handles superbly, and has unbelievable road feedback. The DSC box with custom settings I'm using makes it completely driveable on the street even for long highway trips (3-4 hours is nothing) and when you hit the sport button and everything is tighter and stiffer, it's a mountain carving wonder. With the supercharger, I've essentially created a GT3+ (I actually have more power at around 485), just with a lower redline.

I have to disagree with Hella on the coilovers being "bouncier" too. In my opinion, the stock PASM Shocks lack proper rebound dampening and result in a lot of rear end wallowing. The coilovers completely eliminated that sensation and you can actually feel the suspension working instead of it just feeling either hard and uncompliant or soft and wallowy.

My point is that you can absolutely get there in a 997 and a RWD one will actually give you better steering feel and feedback than you experienced in the 991. It's actually a smaller car (length and track) so feels even sportier and more tossable.

Milo2361

I'm pretty satisfied with my base 997.1 with a rebuilt better than stock 3.6 from Vision motorsports. Long story short I was dumb and didn't get a PPI(never again). 20,000mi down the road I snapped my crankshaft in half on a super easy drive home from work (turns out the car had like 800 lvl 5 overrevs ). Vision knife edged the crank, ported/polished the heads, updated the IMS and a few other weaker points, and I had bought some discontinued headers/mufflers from Borla and AWE Cats with the fabspeed CAI(found it on sale at the time as well). All in on the exhaust and intake I've got ~$3,300 (vs like 8k for the full fabspeed) sounds amazing, and the engine work really livened it up. I Haven't had a chance to dyno, but Vision estimated that it should have roughly 60 crank HP over stock, so ~385 vs the stock 325. The car definitely pulls much harder than stock, sounds amazing with the exhaust, and is a blast to drive. Next up is suspension, brakes, and new wheels. Bought a used VF Supercharger I may or may not put on in the near future as well.

Petza914

I've got forged Champion lightweight RS171 wheels for sale when you get to that part.

Vince Vincent

I agree with above, I think if you drove a Base 997.1 C4, after driving your M3 anyone would agree with you. If you drove a well sorted 997.1 C2S I think it would be a much closer decision. That is also the first time I've heard a 991 feeling "more connected" than a 997. I def understand a 991 on sport suspension (newer, shinier, arguably prettier, cooler) is the way to go but if you want a track experience with connection I'd say a well sorted and modified 997.1/997.2 C2S is the way to go

Kg11

@

Wow! What is the budget for the suspension setup? $10k? If I could only do coilovers plus another $3k in parts, what make the most sense?

Kg11

It was an Atlas Grey C2S. I wasn't super impressed; maybe the car just wasn't dialed, or I didn't drive it hard enough. The guy was selling it with 50,000 miles for $38,000 and I couldn't bring myself to buy it. This was 3 years ago.

It wasn't exceptionally well maintained though: that Atlas Grey color is stunning, yet his was a bit dull. Who knows what the suspension was like

Petza914

Honestly, I'd have to look it up - it was probably every bit of that, but I accumulated parts for a year or so in preparation for it, buying most of the components used. The B16s I paid the guy I bought them from to send them back to Bilstein for a rebuild and recalibration before he shipped them to me, so they were like brand new B16s for a total of about $1,000 less than I could find new ones. I bought the RSS sway bars from him too, but bought almost all the RSS stuff from a different guy that gave me a heck of a deal in order to not have to part it out and sell it as a lot As part of the system I also installed a cargraphic AirLift noselift system to keep my front RUF bumper from scraping on entry/exit driveways - that's the black component you see at the top of the strut in the photo of the front suspension without the wheel installed. The worst part of the job was installing the rubber weather protection boots onto all the monoball ends of the RSS components, but knew I didn't want to have to deal with component replacement after a few years, so bit the bullet and did it all right the first time.

I took a week off work to do the complete installation with the AirLift system taking a couple days by itself so I could do it "my way" with an external compressor that inflates faster, and so everything was hidden under the factory plastic trim panels. Going to an Optima battery allowed me to pick up enough space in the battery tray area to mount the separate compressor and I used rubber fuel pump mounts to isolate it so it doesn't shake the car when it runs. I then fabricated a bracket in order to mount the control box for the AirLift system to the left of that.



Once I had it all put together, I had it aligned and corner balanced. I added the TPC DSC box a couple weeks later as it was a product that was just coming out at the time - I had one of the early 3-mode boxes initially.

In my case, I wasn't too concerned about the cost because I'll keep this car forever (probably pass it down to my son), so don't worry about getting my money back out of mods or keeping stock parts (I sell them as I pull them to help offset the upgrade costs). I wanted it to look, drive, and perform a certain way, which I achieved.

It's my favorite car of all of them.

To answer your question, if you could do coilovers + $3,000, I'd buy either the TPC Tractive DDA setup or the B16 Damptronics, just so you can add TPCs DSC box. Then hang on to what's left and determine where you want to spend the rest to get where you want to be - might be adjustable sways and drop links so you can remove any suspension preload when lowering on the coilovers or might be some dog bones and toe-steer kits, or maybe you'll like it just the way it is and add an exhaust for some additional music while you drive.

Only the Bilstein B16 Damptronics and the Tractive DDA shocks work with the DSC box and you need a car with PASM in order to be able to go in that direction, so in most cases an S model.

I didn't see a location in your signature, but if you're close, I'd be happy to take you for a ride so you can see, hear, and feel what a 997 can be.

Hella-Buggin'

A big part of the feel on these cars is tires and alignment. From the factory, the alignment is tuned to help people who don't know how to drive avoid oversteer. You dial in some negative camber and get a good track alignment and it's a different animal. Then get some Semi Solid Motor mounts and Gearbox mounts to firm up the engine movement. This increases the Noise vibration but well worth it. Short Shift Kit. My C2s is a blast to drive.

Do you have a friend with one you could go out with? Less pressure than a test drive.

Jlewis1436

While becoming a complete convert, my last toy was a Gen2 Viper GTS with a fully built motor, transmission etc. It was about 700hp and 900 tq..all natural. For all the violence and fun, I LOVE my 07 C2S FAR more! Unless on a track, you never really understand just how far you can push this car, even stock. It took me a while to realize, despite the sound from my aftermarket exhaust, I don't need to shift at 5k LOL! The car just needs to be in it's "sweet spot" in the RPMs to really understand what it can do.

Seat time really does matter when pushing any car. That said, the car is always predictable and really lets you push the limit without feeling too much pucker factor. On some back road drives with buddies who have Italian car addictions, Lambo and Ferrari, they are always shocked how my "little VW Bug" keeps up with them on the straights. They really get sad when my buddy in his factory widebody 964 and I totally disappear from them when it gets twisty.

These are magical cars for the lack of HP numbers. I'm still not at the limit where I feel I need more power. While numbers sound great, pushing the car and knowing what it will really do totally change how I feel about the brand and why now, I'm addicted.....dammmmmm you Porsche!

Chris M.

What's wrong with the 991?

Kg11

It was too expensive: I couldn't justify another $80k car

sober_owl

if you like to mod cars might as well save some .oney and buy one with work on it.. for example my car ive easily put close to 20k in mods.. if i were to sell i doubt i could get anything close to 40k cause its modded.. but if u start with a stock car for 32k then u spend another 15k on suspension and wheels..and exhaust...